The111 1 #1 March 20, 2006 Two weeks ago something happened that infuriated me. A freeflier push my girlfriend and I out the door as soon as the greenlight came on. We were not past the spot yet, the winds were high, and we were almost forced to land off in very undesirable conditions. I almost posted about it here but decided against it. Then I read this post and had to reply. What do you think?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,583 #2 March 20, 2006 The video was very funny; kind of like watching a tripping that goes well. But no, it's not the least bit funny to actually do it. For all the reasons you stated in your post in the other thread. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #3 March 20, 2006 I think I would be in a violent mood. What did you do to the person that pushed you?People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #4 March 20, 2006 Absolutely not....unless both parties discussed it on the ground and are playing a "trick" on other jumpers (or students) in the plane. Read your post about the issue you had...did you talk to the S&TA and get the situation resolved or was it let go?Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #5 March 20, 2006 That freeflier owes you an apology and two jump tickets. He's lucky he didn't get grounded, as that's a real safety issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #6 March 20, 2006 We didn't know exactly who pushed, and could only narrow it down to about 3 people who all jokingly avoided the issue when we brought it up with them. Lesson learned, don't ever sit in front of those people. Would have been pointless to try to involve any "authorities", S&TA, whatever. I am not very violent either, no matter how mad I get.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #7 March 20, 2006 NO! it is not funny. It almost happened to me and my team mates one time. I looked below and we happened to be well down wind, over the city (3 miles + or - from the DZ). I held up my hand and held my team mates to their seats, a staffer decided to "help me" to the door, I saw him comming and just stepped to the back of the otter and watched him freefall away. His group chased him out the door and all 6 landed in the city, 1 with a pretty badly sprained ankle. Spot people. It is better than riding an ambulance or going to your own funeral. Green only means the pilot thinks your good to exit, you need to KNOW your good to exit.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #8 March 20, 2006 Na, that shit isn't funny, you and your girl could have been hurt. I probably wouldn't have handled it as well as you did Matt, you are a gentleman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #9 March 20, 2006 An eye for an eye and a push for a push. I would just push him back. You know, as soon as I got in reach of him on the ground, swing my fist back and then forward as hard as I could and when it contacted his nose, then I would push for all I was worth. No, I probably would not have went that far, but I would not have found it funny either. I maybe a newbie, but I like my right to spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,481 #10 March 20, 2006 I think not. Mostly for their own safety. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyinghonu 0 #11 March 20, 2006 Landing off or getting "hurt" is just one of the fairly mild things that could happen - how about the fact that only people who KNOW that the sky is clear of other traffic (INCLUDING OTHER AIRCRAFT) are the people exiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not sure how "funny" it would be in your situation (or even the one in the Chris Cowden video) if some impatient idiots pushed other jumpers into a situation that could result in a mid-air collision and, obviously, death. If someone did this to me - I'd DEFINITELY be bringing it up with ST&A and the jumper who did the pushing - at the VERY least. "Excuse me while I kiss the sky..." - Jimi Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #12 March 20, 2006 there is a difference between "fooling around" among staffers and regular jumpers and the selfish dangerous act you are describing. Pushing someone out of the door because you're in a hurry is an extreme violation of basic safety. If it would happen the way you described it at I dropzone I was at, I would have grounded the person who pushed for at least 2 weeks (which in the dutch system instructors are able to do).The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #13 March 21, 2006 Not cool. Having to push people out the door to get a good spot and then having no spine to admit it is even worst..... They'd be spitting out their teeth like Chicklets if it were me. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripcord4 0 #14 March 21, 2006 No, it is NOT funny in the least. If anything would have happened to either one of you (fatality), a good District Attorney could construe that as Manslaughter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #15 March 21, 2006 I'm gonna have to apologise here for my post. I jump at a very small drop zone where everyone knows eachother very well. We spot manually and we have an incredible amount of outs (indiana). I presumed that the video was at a DZ similar to mine where everyone is active in spotting the plane/ knowing eachother/ knowing eachother's dive plan. I agree that in a situation where the flat flyers are unprepared this could have been an incident. My bad on the joke - I'm just weather grounded and extremely easily entertained --- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alw 0 #16 March 21, 2006 Definately not funny for whatever reason on whatever jump run with whatever outs. Traffic, weather, spot or gear issues could cause an injury or worse. The plane can go around and you can all fight about it on the ground, but that one in a million chance that something goes wrong is too critical to take the chance. I was on four loads that weekend where the first jumper/group held in the door waiting for the spot and on each one they were urged by people in the back of the bus. In each case they were right to hold and by the time everyone was on the ground it had been forgotten. Not cool, not funny, and never the right thing to do. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #17 March 21, 2006 I would never tell (or make) anyone get out if they were spotting. Thats a ground rule. But i have torn peoples heads off while staring at cloud cover when they knew damn well we went through a layer at 5k. "The light ain't gonna get any greener!!!" If you know you can't spot and aren't prepared for that when the door opens, get the fuck out of the way. Personally for me it is usually RW groups. Or when they can they want to get out over the peas. Bullshit. But if its a safety issue, I would never pressure anyone to get out. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 March 21, 2006 Quote Not cool. Having to push people out the door to get a good spot and then having no spine to admit it is even worst..... yeah, I'm more bothered by the lack of owning up, or from the others that almost certainly observed it. If given a chance to say (it wasn't clear how directly everyone on the load was asked), it suggests the person knew he was out of line, and buddies are covering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #19 March 21, 2006 Explain the incident to the S&TA. Ask them to speak to the person. It will be handled better. First, they can't just walk away from you and blow it off with a "whatever, dude". They have to stop and explain it. Second, there isn't a good "reasonable" explanation. Neither "Just fun" or impatience are valid. I have found that the S&TA will leave a more serious impression and have a better chance of making a difference. It is their job to define the limits of behaviour so that this does not occur again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #20 March 21, 2006 Again, I don't know exactly who it was. It is narrowed down to 2-3 people, which means nothing.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #21 March 21, 2006 No, it's not OK. The first rule of practical spotting is ignore the shouting assh*les in the front of the plane*. As to pushing any group out of the plane, it's not a friendly thing to do no matter where you live. Jump tickets are getting REALLY expensive and people can afford to jump less. If somebody can only get a couple jumps a week (or month!) that setup and exit is a precious thing for someone to screw up just for a giggle. Think of the difference between just slick-nailing a perfect exit (that never gets old!) and funnelling one. I agree that jumpers that get pushed deserve replacement tickets from the pushers. *Pilot not included. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #22 March 21, 2006 QuoteJump tickets are getting REALLY expensive and people can afford to jump less. If somebody can only get a couple jumps a week (or month!) that setup and exit is a precious thing for someone to screw up just for a giggle. It's not just a money issue, but instead a safety issue also. Other aircraft flying in the local air space are not always picked up by the pilot and first out should always look for planes in the area and down the line of flight that could interfere with jumpers exiting on the load. Be safe Edwww.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #23 March 21, 2006 Yep. Very funny although I prefer being the one getting pushed... Oh, you mean without telling the pushee in advance? Hell no. As for the 2-3 people, I would hope that most DZOs would just ground all of them for covering up an obvious safety issue.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy_H 0 #24 March 21, 2006 I think they would probably be looking for their teeth if they did it to me. Not funny at all.010010010110010101100001011101000111000001110101011100110111001101111001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #25 March 21, 2006 If some one is completely climb out how long to you let them out there before you either push them off or pull them in? Part of spoting is knowing when to climb out. If you climb out and then hang out there waiting on the spot to get better before having anyone else climb out that either better be a really big way that needs a really long climb out, or you need to figure out how to spot and exit again.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
