Daylight shifting time

[kallend 2,146]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Under that argument we should just get rid of time zones as well.

OK by me.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

14 minutes ago, kallend said:

OK by me.

Which means that for some people the next day will start either during the middle of the day, or now you have to remember for each area at which time the next day starts. But all arbitrary anyways, we don't need days or dates either.

[gowlerk 2,274]

5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

But all arbitrary anyways,

Does anybody really know what time it is? I keep hearing that the end is near anyway.

[kallend 2,146]

10 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Which means that for some people the next day will start either during the middle of the day, or now you have to remember for each area at which time the next day starts. But all arbitrary anyways, we don't need days or dates either.

 

So suggesting an end to biannual time changes means I want to eliminate days and dates.

The Sun rises and sets without regard to the numbers we put on our clocks.  We don't save daylight by changing the clocks.  We can synchronize our activities without changing the time twice every year. 

Nice strawman though.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

9 minutes ago, kallend said:

So suggesting an end to biannual time changes means I want to eliminate days and dates.

Uhhh no. Getting rid of time zones, which you said you were fine with, would however lead to some issues, as identified.

Nice strawman though.

There is such a thing as a circadian rhythm. It helps our physical and mental health when we get to align ourselves with that. I am all for eliminating the time change. However don't agree that it is all random and we are all in positions where we can just do what we want when we want, like a retired rich guy.

[kallend 2,146]

43 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Uhhh no. Getting rid of time zones, which you said you were fine with, would however lead to some issues, as identified.

Nice strawman though.

There is such a thing as a circadian rhythm. It helps our physical and mental health when we get to align ourselves with that. I am all for eliminating the time change. However don't agree that it is all random and we are all in positions where we can just do what we want when we want, like a retired rich guy.

Still trying to put your words in my posts.  I guess you can't really defend your position.

 

SO I'LL MAKE IT LOUDER.  BIANNUALLY SHIFTING THE CLOCKS DOES NOT DESTROY OUR ABILITY TO SYNCHRONIZE ACTVITIES.

[gowlerk 2,274]

5 minutes ago, kallend said:

Still trying to put your words in my posts.  I guess you can't really defend your position.

 

SO I'LL MAKE IT LOUDER.  BIANNUALLY SHIFTING THE CLOCKS DOES NOT DESTROY OUR ABILITY TO SYNCHRONIZE ACTVITIES.

Agreed. But I am confused now. Are you for or against the current system?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

8 minutes ago, kallend said:

Still trying to put your words in my posts. 

.....

[billvon 3,111]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Does anybody really know what time it is? I keep hearing that the end is near anyway.

Once SHTF then time zones won't matter.  But it keeps NOT HAPPENING dammit!

[billvon 3,111]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

The Sun rises and sets without regard to the numbers we put on our clocks.  We don't save daylight by changing the clocks.  We can synchronize our activities without changing the time twice every year. 

OK by me. (getting rid of all time zones)

Surely you would agree that having the date change at various times during people's days would be more difficult, right?

Manager at 10am solar time:

"Let's have a meeting tomorrow an hour after solar noon."
"You mean the 'tomorrow after solar noon' that is 3 hours from now?  Or the 'tomorrow after solar noon' that is 27 hours from now?  Because the date changes just before solar noon here."

You'd sort of have to abandon the general notion of yesterday, today and tomorrow, unless you were in one of those zones that actually had the date change when everyone is asleep.

[JerryBaumchen 1,466]

Hi folks,

I think that this horse had died.  It is not possible to inflict any additional punishment.

Let's move on.

Jerry Baumchen

[kallend 2,146]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

.....

YOU suggested it.  I didn't.  I just said I wouldn't mind.

[kallend 2,146]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Surely you would agree that having the date change at various times during people's days would be more difficult, right?

Manager at 10am solar time:

"Let's have a meeting tomorrow an hour after solar noon."
"You mean the 'tomorrow after solar noon' that is 3 hours from now?  Or the 'tomorrow after solar noon' that is 27 hours from now?  Because the date changes just before solar noon here."

You'd sort of have to abandon the general notion of yesterday, today and tomorrow, unless you were in one of those zones that actually had the date change when everyone is asleep.

MY suggestion is to stop the biannual time shift. Skydekker brought up eliminating time zones.  Just because it wouldn't bother me doesn't mean I endorsed his suggestion.

[kallend 2,146]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Agreed. But I am confused now. Are you for or against the current system?

I am against changing the clocks twice each year. 

I personally don't mind if we stick to "standard" or "daylight", or even if we go to Zulu  (after all, ATC manages to synchronize worldwide  just fine using Zulu, so it must be achievable).  But making that choice was (and is) not part of my suggestion.

[billvon 3,111]

30 minutes ago, kallend said:

MY suggestion is to stop the biannual time shift. Skydekker brought up eliminating time zones.  Just because it wouldn't bother me doesn't mean I endorsed his suggestion.

OK.  When you said "OK by me" I thought you meant you would be OK with his suggestion to eliminate time zones.  If that's not the case, then nevermind.

[kallend 2,146]

I think post #1 in this thread was perfectly clear.  

[gowlerk 2,274]

12 minutes ago, kallend said:

I think post #1 in this thread was perfectly clear.  

Sure, but what fun is that?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:51 AM, kallend said:

All we do is move the nominal time of daylight (and darkness) around a clock face in an arbitrary manner.

Actually this was what you said after mentioning what congress had voted on.

That is the "reasoning" that led me to say that under this logic you might as well get rid of time zones, since that is also just moving the nominal time of daylight around a clock face in an arbitrary matter.

You then said you were OK with that, but then said you didn't mean you were OK with it when you said you were OK with it. Some real scientific stuff I am sure.

Anyways, DST doesn't change the amount of daytime, I think we can all agree on that. Most of us also agree that getting rid of the biannual time change is probably a good thing, even if they picked the wrong time to fix.

I think we can also agree that having most people in the world have the same understanding of day, yesterday, tomorrow and when those changes happen is worthwhile.

Probably would have been an easier way to say that you didn't really think through a flippant remark.

[kallend 2,146]

3 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

 

I think we can also agree that having most people in the world have the same understanding of day, yesterday, tomorrow and when those changes happen is worthwhile.

 

Except they don't all happen at the same time all over the world, nor at all in many places including 2 US states.

And trying to blame me for your invention of a strawman is lame.  Post #1 in this thread was perfectly clear and had nothing whatever to do with time zones or the elimination of days and dates.  Those were 100% your invention.

[JoeWeber 2,936]

5 minutes ago, kallend said:

Except they don't all happen at the same time all over the world, nor at all in many places including 2 US states.

And trying to blame me for your invention of a strawman is lame.  Post #1 in this thread was perfectly clear and had nothing whatever to do with time zones or the elimination of days and dates.  Those were 100% your invention.

Jeez, John, are you new? We don't argue about what we said, we argue about our clarifications and explanations. 

[gowlerk 2,274]

44 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Jeez, John, are you new? We don't argue about what we said, we argue about our clarifications and explanations. 

John is somehow under the impression that starting a thread gives you some right to steer it.

[billvon 3,111]

To solve all these problems, let's go with Randall Munroe's solution.

Everyone gets a smartwatch.  They push a button on the watch whenever the person thinks it's 9am.  Then you take the average of all the estimates, and make clocks run faster or slower so the next day's 9am happens at the consensus time.

It's perfectly democratic, and would increase employment of programmers, admin assistants and therapists tremendously!

What's that you say?  The sun is setting at 10am now?  Shoulda thought of that before you voted.

[JoeWeber 2,936]

39 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

John is somehow under the impression that starting a thread gives you some right to steer it.

Against the arbiters of truth here, even someone of John's caliber is prey.

[kallend 2,146]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Against the arbiters of truth here, even someone of John's caliber is prey.

I recognize a strawman when I see one.

[BIGUN 1,483]

I look at it kinda like I do the metric system. After awhile; you get used to it.