Ukraine

[JerryBaumchen 1,466]

3 hours ago, ryoder said:

Stop me if you've heard this story before:

A crackpot dictator tries to build an empire in Europe, but when it all goes South, they make plans to flee to South America.

Dailey Beast: Putin Is Preparing to Flee When Russia Implodes, Ex-Aide Says

Hi Robert,

He can just follow the bread crumbs left by the members of the Third Reich.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[jakee 1,594]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Ukraine was supplied with 20 Mig-29s with US assistance. The deal included US used F-16 aircraft U.S. Approves Sale Of Fighter Jets To Bulgaria Amid Speculation About Supply Of MiGs To Ukraine 

You might assume that is what happened but it is not what either of your links says. 

Whereas the US absolutely did refuse to directly, publicly facilitate the supply of Mig 29s to Ukraine when the opportunity was offered to them.

[normiss 893]

Putin noted that United States’ policy was not to exclude the possibility of a “disarming” nuclear strike. 

“They have it in their strategy, in the documents it is spelled out – a preventive blow. We don't. We, on the other hand, have formulated a retaliatory strike in our strategy," Putin said.

 

I'm quite curious HOW Putin knows this, how he knows EXACTLY what is in the US' defense strategy documents. Hmmmm...I wonder.....

His comments are also reminiscent of his comments prior to attacking Ukraine, when he basically said he would not.

Nukes. Yay.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

9 minutes ago, normiss said:

Putin noted that United States’ policy was not to exclude the possibility of a “disarming” nuclear strike. 

“They have it in their strategy, in the documents it is spelled out – a preventive blow. We don't. We, on the other hand, have formulated a retaliatory strike in our strategy," Putin said.

 

I'm quite curious HOW Putin knows this, how he knows EXACTLY what is in the US' defense strategy documents. Hmmmm...I wonder.....

His comments are also reminiscent of his comments prior to attacking Ukraine, when he basically said he would not.

Nukes. Yay.

#1 - Putin can say anything he likes. Doesn't make it true. I was under the impression that the US had a "no first use" policy for WMD. I could certainly be wrong on that, but that was what I always thought. Of course, all the Putin sympathizers on here will jump on it, claiming that Putin would 'just be defending himself' if he was foolish enough to use nukes. The way the 'Ukraine is building a dirty bomb and is going to use it on their own territory' bullshit went away after Putin was told how big of a mistake that would be leads me to no worry a whole lot about it Not zero, but not a whole lot.

 

#2 - That sort of 'doctrine/policy' isn't something that changes a lot. Russia has had a LOT of sources in the US government over the years. If this is the policy (and that's a pretty big 'if'), then Russia may well have known it for years. Decades even.
Not that Trump wouldn't have told Putin anything and everything he wanted to know, but I don't think Putin would have needed that info from him.

[ryoder 1,590]

15 minutes ago, normiss said:

I'm quite curious HOW Putin knows this, how he knows EXACTLY what is in the US' defense strategy documents. Hmmmm...I wonder.....

Maybe he sent an aide to Mar-a-Lago to make photocopies?

[JoeWeber 2,938]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Once again, both of you, cut it out.  Last warning.

Handled. I've blocked him, signed up for therapy, and have committed myself to humming a certain Bill Withers song every hour on the hour. I can do this thing.

[BIGUN 1,483]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:24 PM, JoeWeber said:

humming a certain Bill Withers song every hour on the hour.

Lovely Day?

[JoeWeber 2,938]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Lovely Day?

Ain’t no sunshine 

[headoverheels 334]

44 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Ain’t no sunshine 

I thought for sure it would have been "Just the Two of Us"

[jakee 1,594]

11 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Ain’t no sunshine 

When she’s gone?

[JoeWeber 2,938]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:08 PM, ryoder said:

Maybe he sent an aide to Mar-a-Lago to make photocopies?

We are now officially fucking up. Our defense reserve ammunition requirement is 2.5 wars against Russia, China and North Korea. Well, Russia isn't the Russia our vaunted planners hoped we would believe. No matter, they are now seriously degraded by our proxy war. We don't need a lot of our stocks. Time to pour it on, methinks. Send everything now including long range missiles.

[murps2000 86]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

We are now officially fucking up. Our defense reserve ammunition requirement is 2.5 wars against Russia, China and North Korea. Well, Russia isn't the Russia our vaunted planners hoped we would believe. No matter, they are now seriously degraded by our proxy war. We don't need a lot of our stocks. Time to pour it on, methinks. Send everything now including long range missiles.

Patriot systems may soon be on the way. Almost makes it seem like Ukraine is already part of NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/13/politics/us-patriot-missile-defense-system-ukraine/index.html
 

[Phil1111 1,176]

Well at $3 million a shot the Patriot isn't the end all. Agree with Joe. Perhaps 1000 of the older M1 tanks would help. There are over 2600 of the older M1s in storage now. As long as Ukraine promises not to take Moscow with them.

One way or another Putin has to learn that striking Ukrainian infrastructure is a losing proposition for him. Otherwise he and his new Ayatollah buddy will just keep trading arms. Given the performance of Russian technology nuclear weapon technology to Iran will be next.

These are the newer ones; U.S. approves potential sale $3.75 billion of M1A1 Abrams tanks to Poland

[Phil1111 1,176]

9 hours ago, murps2000 said:

Patriot systems may soon be on the way. Almost makes it seem like Ukraine is already part of NATO.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/13/politics/us-patriot-missile-defense-system-ukraine/index.html
 

The US war college will be leaning a class a week off what they are discovering from this war.

[Phil1111 1,176]

In related news. Russia under the enlightened leadership of Putin. Using the broadcasts of FOX news and Chinese communist media. Is winning the war with its hands tied behind its back. Its kicking NATO's ass and humiliating Biden.

"Spinning together a counternarrative for tens of millions of viewers, Russian propagandists plucked clips from American cable news, right-wing social media and Chinese officials. They latched onto claims that Western embargoes of Russian oil would be self-defeating, that the United States was hiding secret bioweapon research labs in Ukraine and that China was a loyal ally against a fragmenting West.

Day by day, state media journalists sharpened those themes in emails. They sometimes broadcast battlefield videos and other information sent to them by the successor agency to the K.G.B. And they excerpted and translated footage from favorite pundits, like the Fox News host Tucker Carlson, whose remarks about the war were shown to millions of Russians."

In WW2 Japan had Iva Toguri, AKA Tokyo Rose. Today Putin has Tucker Carlson.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Phil1111

[gowlerk 2,275]

11 hours ago, murps2000 said:

Patriot systems may soon be on the way. Almost makes it seem like Ukraine is already part of NATO.

NATO in general and the US in particular are going to get deeper and deeper in and more and more and more involved. Russia would be wise to just swallow its pride and find a way out. At this point their weakness is exposed and the west can smell blood.

Edited December 15, 2022 by gowlerk

[wmw999 2,587]

8 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

NATO in general and the US in particular are going to get deeper and deeper in and more and more and more involved. Russia would be wise to just swallow its pride and find a way out. At this point their weakness is exposed and the west can smell blood.

However, I still wouldnt' put it past Putin to go rogue, with just a teeny-tiny little nuke to prove he can. Cornered rats and all that.

Wendy P.

[billvon 3,114]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

However, I still wouldnt' put it past Putin to go rogue, with just a teeny-tiny little nuke to prove he can. Cornered rats and all that.

Yeah I am worried about that too.  Like you said, a small one, and then Putin blames Ukraine or the US for using nukes and escalating the war.  (And Tucker Carlson supports him.)

 

 

[gowlerk 2,275]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

However, I still wouldnt' put it past Putin to go rogue, with just a teeny-tiny little nuke to prove he can. Cornered rats and all that.

Wendy P.

And that is the danger that is making the west go slow instead of just diving in. If he does it is unlikely to end with just one. And most likely he knows that. But no one really knows his true motivations or if he has limits. No matter what happens it clearly will end in a major historic event.

[normiss 893]

9 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

And that is the danger that is making the west go slow instead of just diving in. If he does it is unlikely to end with just one. And most likely he knows that. But no one really knows his true motivations or if he has limits. No matter what happens it clearly will end in a major historic event.

Putin Nicholas III of Russia?

[gowlerk 2,275]

10 minutes ago, normiss said:

Putin Nicholas III of Russia?

Vlad The Great? Who knows. He has been in power a long time and even if he started out level headed and sane is probably drunk with power by now. He has now made a big but somewhat understandable miscalculation. An even bigger one is most likely in the cards.

Edited December 15, 2022 by gowlerk

[Phil1111 1,176]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Vlad The Great? Who knows. He has been in power a long time and even if he started out level headed and sane is probably drunk with power by now. He has now made a big but somewhat understandable miscalculation. An even bigger one is most likely in the cards.

Stalin killed six to nine million Russians. So Putin has quite a ways to go. In April 2019, a Levada center poll revealed that 70% of Russians approve of Stalin's role in Russian history, the highest ever recorded, and that 51% viewed Stalin in a positive light.

Revisionism of history in Russia i.e. Nationalist leaders often weaponize the past to justify their present aims. But the Russian president’s narrative appears to be directed at an audience of one. Has always been popular.

In order to establish Putin's legacy many more Russians will grow up without fathers. Russian state propaganda now frames the war as a matter of survival of the motherland. Its Russia against NATO. NATO wants to destroy Russia. So the war will go on for a long time.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,938]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:32 PM, Phil1111 said:

Stalin killed six to nine million Russians. So Putin has quite a ways to go. In April 2019, a Levada center poll revealed that 70% of Russians approve of Stalin's role in Russian history, the highest ever recorded, and that 51% viewed Stalin in a positive light.

Revisionism of history in Russia i.e. Nationalist leaders often weaponize the past to justify their present aims. But the Russian president’s narrative appears to be directed at an audience of one. Has always been popular.

In order to establish Putin's legacy many more Russians will grow up without fathers. Russian state propaganda now frames the war as a matter of survival of the motherland. Its Russia against NATO. NATO wants to destroy Russia. So the war will go on for a long time.

I think it's time to hit Belarus. Russia used bases at Luninets, Narovlya and Khoyniki to attack Ukraine. I say let's whack those bases as a reminder of what will happen if they unwisely believe hosting a future Russian pincer again is a smart move. Gets the job done in several ways, all obvious.

[Phil1111 1,176]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I think it's time to hit Belarus. Russia used bases at Luninets, Narovlya and Khoyniki to attack Ukraine. I say let's whack those bases as a reminder of what will happen if they unwisely believe hosting a future Russian pincer again is a smart move. Gets the job done in several ways, all obvious.

Russia is currently conducting war games again in Belarus. Joint exercises of Russian Federation and Belarus continue at a distance from the border with Ukraine Mon, December 12, 2022

[ryoder 1,590]

9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I think it's time to hit Belarus. Russia used bases at Luninets, Narovlya and Khoyniki to attack Ukraine. I say let's whack those bases as a reminder of what will happen if they unwisely believe hosting a future Russian pincer again is a smart move. Gets the job done in several ways, all obvious.

I've been reading recently that Putin is leaning hard Lukashenko to get Belarus fully involved in the "special military operation". But there is enough unhappiness with Lukashenko in Belarus, that to do so would likely see him ousted from power.

So the options are say "No" to Putin and get tossed out a window by Putin's goons, or say "Yes" to Putin and get tossed out a window by his own people.