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Thinking through all the consequences

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There have been some posts and sadly incidents that have made me wonder if we as skydivers really think through all the consequences of what we do as we progress through the sport.

Two things in particular I am thinking of:
1. camera flying (piisfish's post as well as some of the posts in the general discussion a while back about doing everything right and still dying). I know so many people who just seem to look at camera as a natural next step once they reach 200 jumps.
2. the fact that high performance canopies seem able to malfunction badly enough to prevent some people performing EPs in time.

Dave's excellent post on pulling handles also applies here. You can practise EPs all you want, but if you can't find your handles...

I have spent some time in the past few days visualising what it must be like to think you are about to die (I probably should add this has also been due to the tragic passing of a pilot I knew in a light aircraft crash yesterday, it's not just about skydiving but aviation in general). It's not a pleasant thing to think about. :|

What do you guys think? Does the "average" skydiver progressing from say 200 through 1000+ jump really, properly think through all the consequences of the next step (camera, wingsuit, downsizing, elliptical etc) or is it just seen as the next thing to move on to? (I realise that some of these do have their own EPs so there must be some thinking about the extra hazards involved). Sometimes you can do everything right and still die once IN a situation, but maybe would not BE in that situation if all the consequences had been properly thought through beforehand. Thoughts?
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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I brought up an idea last summer, mostly about HP canopy progression, but I think it may have some crossover here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1795708;search_string=psychology;#1795708

As for doing everything right and still dying, that is very very very rarely the case. Most injuries and fatalities occur due to the jumper doing atleast on thing wrong, typically its a series of events, that leads to a situation that cannot be corrected, resulting in the injury or fatality.

Tom

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

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What do you guys think? Does the "average" skydiver progressing from say 200 through 1000+ jump really, properly think through all the consequences of the next step (camera, wingsuit, downsizing, elliptical etc) or is it just seen as the next thing to move on to?



I dont see those as a natural progression for everyone.

My desire is to continue to improve my flying.
I really have no desire to downsize to a postage stamp and swoop the pond or strap a camera on my head.

I'm a long way from "moving on" to anything since at 223 jumps I have barely scratched the surface of the things I have now.

I cant speak for the average skydiver. Only myself. I dont know who the average skydiver is. Maybe I am, maybe not. but to answer the question, yes.
I have thoroughly thought it through.
__

My mighty steed

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I brought up an idea last summer, mostly about HP canopy progression, but I think it may have some crossover here:



yeah, some of the posts in that thread mention something i was also thinking about: that people so many other people do X and are fine, that they assume they will be too.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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I have spent some time in the past few days visualising what it must be like to think you are about to die (I probably should add this has also been due to the tragic passing of a pilot I knew in a light aircraft crash yesterday, it's not just about skydiving but aviation in general). It's not a pleasant thing to think about.



It is intense to visualize my own death; my heart starts racing and a tingling sensation deep inside, almost like, anticipation.

Death is going to come for all of us, how we each as individuals deal with your demise is our own decision - either kicking crying and screaming or just relax and accept the inevitable or somewhere in between. Irregardless, it is going to be an intense moment that few of us are eager to experience.

All the more reason to become as prepared as possible in whatever activities one chooses to participate in life.

Personally, whenever I have the occasional close call and escape death by millimeters, well, I like the feeling. It is a rush so I imagine when it does actually happen there will be a euphoria associated that will ease the experience, one last buzz before taking the eternal plunge.
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

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Personally, i always review Ep's but will not stand still and go at a snail pace to learn things,at ht same time not rushing and being too careless.

Ithink a balance is needed bewteen progression and safety for me.

there are risks but im willing to take calculated ones to further my skilss in this sport.

Whether it be swoopnig or wahtever,im not going to just sit around, hell my reserve might not work on my30th jump evvn if im doing things conservativly.

Thus, if that can happen, i see no reasons to sit still yet no reason to rush.


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There have been some posts and sadly incidents that have made me wonder if we as skydivers really think through all the consequences of what we do as we progress through the sport.



No.

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What do you guys think? Does the "average" skydiver progressing from say 200 through 1000+ jump really, properly think through all the consequences of the next step (camera, wingsuit, downsizing, elliptical etc) or is it just seen as the next thing to move on to?



No.

I'll give you an example from my life.

I have this cool RC helicopter. It is Electric and uses these really cool Lithium Ion Polymer (Lipos) batteries. These things have a reputation as being dangerous (Think small canopies). And people warn that they can be bad if not handled with care. (Think canopies). Anyway, when I got my first Lipo pack I treated it with kid gloves...Watched it like I should, had a fire extinguisher handy, charged it outside...blah,blah. But 6 mths later I have not had a problem and let my guard down.

Long story short, I dropped my guard and one of them blew up in my face. I think the same thing happens with canopies and just about anything else.

You start really careful....Then nothing goes bad. So you drop your guard, stop paying as much attention to the little things. Then all hell breaks lose and maybe you survive and maybe you don't.

Things that will "wake" you up.

1. All hell breaks lose and you survive.
2. All hell breaks lose and someone dies. You might realize that it could have been you....Or maybe you just assume you are better than they were and keep on trucking....But at some point you wake up. I don't know too many old times that think they are bullet proof like some folks with a few hundered jumps do.

In my case with the Lipos was it blew up and I didn't burn my house down.....But the same thing has happend to me in skydiving. After watching a few bodies hit, and having a few close calls, I realized that not one dead skydiver thought they were going to die from their actions...But they did anyway and I am no different than them.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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interesting and thoughtful post

I can only say that I never thought I would die until I nearly did (one classic low cutaway after timewasting under a spinning mal, and one shit happens incident exiting on a formation load with the chase plane underneath us). In reality we progress, we learn, we try things......if we agonised over the consequences many of us would give up....most of us get through it, occasionally some of us get bitten....its the price of the game. In the end you can only prepare to do you best and fight and hope its good enough/ the right choice on the day.

Having said all that gloomy sounding stuff , I still think its one of the most amazing things a human can do and cant imagine not having it in my life
regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

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in reply to "Does the "average" skydiver progressing from say 200 through 1000+ jump really, properly think through all the consequences of the next step "
...............................

Properly think ??;)

Some skydivers do appear to be a bit rash given the extreme punishment for lessons badly learnt.
I've noticed one or two jumpers do tend to take the odd risk here and there as well.:P

Just the other day I saw some -one seriously injure themselves and I'm sure they were having fun right up to the last few seconds. It appeared obvious no thought of being broken was happening until it actually happened to them . Then automatic body trauma control kicks in and hey presto you're left dealing with the conseqeunces. To most of the rest you're carried away never to be seen again...perhaps .

Some-one should ban the damn consequences things from DZ's . always poppin up uninvited ruining people 's days and lives .
Meanwhile...
Sitting over there under those trees were a fine band of persons suckin on some beers and talking about all those consequences. That band of happy survivors could see the damn things approaching before they happened and the vehichles that delivered the stuff. .eg high winds with turbulance, sunday morns after big nights , 16way turkey loads, inexperienced freeflying buddies, packing & rigging lessons by students ..... this list keeps getting real extensive.
Most prided themselves (at least in private) of being able to dodge the phewking things as well.

When you see/feel those consequences approachng your way...don't run...pop the rig away, sit back, crack a coldy or a hottie and watch some skydiving
You might be surprised .
Odds on you'll see a distinct lack of consequential thinking .......usually .
:ph34r:

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