MB38 0
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obelixtim 150
Are you sure? I've read many a thread where the dangers of a terminal reserve deployment at high altitudes have been warned against. Not high-speed premature deployments while freeflying, I'm talking about normal belly-to-earth deployments that ended in broken lines and a mess of other complications due to altitude.As long as it's a subterminal deployment, it should be ok. The issue of terminal deployments at high altitudes is the real issue, and that's why one should wait until a standard deployment altitude to pull if they're terminal up high.
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The difference between opening shock at 10,000 feet and 1,000 feet is insignificant.
When in doubt whip out your reserve ... the higher the better.
For example, during my last reserve ride, I "saddled out" at 3,000 feet. That gave me lots of time to follow my main and freebag.
I'll do a search to try and find the threads I'm talking about.
Terminal deployments while freeflying could result in broken lines and blown up canopies.
Terminal deployments of a reserve in a belly to earth normal deployment would VERY RARELY result in damage to anything.....
Your search for threads about this situation will, I'm sure find very little. As you are a skydiver with limited experience, I think you should refrain from posting this nonsense on a forum where people with limited experience like yourself could possibly believe this stuff, departing from correct emergency procedures, and killing themselves.
Emergency procedures have evolved over many years as the result of often bitter experience.....
Instructors teach these procedures world wide, and they have been proven correct in 99.9% of the situations that have arisen. Getting away from a CRW wrap is probably the only time you would make a short delay after cutting away, but you normally have extra altitude up your sleeve to start with.
The correct procedure is to cut away and immediately pull the reserve.....
If you really don't know what you are talking about it is better to say nothing. Don't post rumour or myth.
Because some poor sap is likely to believe it.....
And die.......
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....
Guest 1010
As long as it's a subterminal deployment, it should be ok. The issue of terminal deployments at high altitudes is the real issue, and that's why one should wait until a standard deployment altitude to pull if they're terminal up high.
I'm new but think the recent fuss made in threads here about terminal reserve openings at belly speeds has been seriously overstated.
Last fall I spent $30 (40 now) and jumped a PDR 176 demo-as-a-main, exit weight 230 lbs, which PD later assured me had the same size slider etc as a "normal" reserve. (I had less than 50 jumps then, and I now have a PDR176 in my rig at 210 exit wt.)
First jump tossed at 10k a little off the hill (didn't get full alti), that didn't hurt so next jump tossed at 9k from full alti, next jump at 5k from full alti. The openings were brisk, but not hard. (I got hit hard - dazed, "WTF just happened?" hard - by a student TRI 190 a month prior to jumping the reserve.)
IMHO you should demo jump a reserve. There is no need to speculate about reserve openings when you can get them in person with a demo canopy.
(edit: obelixtim beat me to it)
You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.
MB38 0
While your point is wholly accepted and respected, it leaves me in a peculiar situation. When all I'm doing is relaying something that I've learned on the forums, how can I know if it's good information or not? I generally judge the source of the information based on jump numbers and post count, but sometimes that's not enough. I specifically remember reading the very point that I made above. When I originally found it, I was so surprised that I took note. The general point made was that if one finds themselves terminal at a high altitude with only a reserve on their back that they should take it down to a standard deployment altitude [say 5,000 and below] before pulling. Of course one should deploy their reserve immediately after cutting away from a malfunction - this only applies if something has prevented that. There was no negative reaction to the post so I filed it away in my growing library of knowledge as something to keep in mind should I ever find myself in the situation.Your search for threads about this situation will, I'm sure find very little. As you are a skydiver with limited experience, I think you should refrain from posting this nonsense on a forum where people with limited experience like yourself could possibly believe this stuff, departing from correct emergency procedures, and killing themselves.
I, of course, cannot find the thread... though I specifically remember the post. For argument's sake at this point I may as well have made it up.
Now judging by how negative the reaction in this thread is, I'm sure I've made a mistake. Perhaps I misread it, misremembered it or the post was overlooked when it was originally made. Either way, I'm truly mortified that I've posted misinformation on these forums. I really do fully appreciate your point that somebody could take the misinformation in my post as the truth... because that's exactly what I did with somebody else's post.
So my brain, having read the information I read in the mystery thread, saw somebody's post in this thread about pulling high at terminal and freaked out. That's not right, I have the answer! I read it earlier! I'd better pass that information on and potentially save somebody's ass... after all, that's the point of these forums.
So that's why I said something. If I thought I didn't know the answer, i wouldn't have tried to post it. But since I thought I knew the right answer and had no way to know that I was wrong, I posted.
So thank you for catching me on this one. I made a mistake and I am sorry for it. The good news is that the error has been corrected and the truth has been posted. I assume it's the truth because you have a lot of jumps and I don't. The same qualifications that I used the last time I read information on the subject. That's the peculiar situation I alluded to above... how do I know what information to trust and what to ignore?
In this case, I'll trust the info in this thread. Several people have posted contrary to what I think I remember, so I'm wrong.
Anyway, I'm still typing. I think my point's somewhere in there. I do actually appreciate it, I hope this post doesn't come across as cynical.
[And I do plan on jumping a reserve as a main once I am allowed to do so. The largest demo reserve my DZ has is a 176R. Since I'm still on 190 mains, it's too small to safely jump. Of course with that said, the rig that I rent from them has a 176R in it. I suppose that's another point altogether.]
I really don't know what I'm talking about.
Guest 1010
>There was no negative reaction to the post so I filed it away in my growing library of knowledge as something to keep in mind should I ever find myself in the situation.
I remember the thread(s?) about deploying high and disagreed, but tend not to comment on things here since I'm a FNG. This is the internet. Better to hang out and talk to people at the dz, judge for yourself, and develop a common sense for handling all sorts of things.
In this case, I'd say more alti mo' better. What if the reserve totals? Another 30 seconds to pull shi*t out of your container might be needed. Others reading your stuff, are ALSO reading from the internet, and you do have your jump numbers posted, no worries, though it is obviously a good thing to say when your opinion has changed on something (but that's also the point of jump numbers here - our opinions change all the time as we learn; it is different when Bill Booth changes his mind about something).
.02
You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.
I remember the thread(s?) about deploying high and disagreed, but tend not to comment on things here since I'm a FNG. This is the internet. Better to hang out and talk to people at the dz, judge for yourself, and develop a common sense for handling all sorts of things.
In this case, I'd say more alti mo' better. What if the reserve totals? Another 30 seconds to pull shi*t out of your container might be needed. Others reading your stuff, are ALSO reading from the internet, and you do have your jump numbers posted, no worries, though it is obviously a good thing to say when your opinion has changed on something (but that's also the point of jump numbers here - our opinions change all the time as we learn; it is different when Bill Booth changes his mind about something).
.02
You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.
Orange1 0
MB, IIRC the main factor was not so much altitude but either freefly speeds and/or overloading the reserve.
To everyone who has answered, thanks - fwiw I have no intention of delaying a reserve pull, it had just never occurred to me before that line twists on a reserve might be a serious problem - and from the answers I have received (incl a useful doc emailed) it seems that they wouldn't be any more of a problem than the ones I experienced on my student canopies.
To everyone who has answered, thanks - fwiw I have no intention of delaying a reserve pull, it had just never occurred to me before that line twists on a reserve might be a serious problem - and from the answers I have received (incl a useful doc emailed) it seems that they wouldn't be any more of a problem than the ones I experienced on my student canopies.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
The major problem with people deploying high with a reserve whether FF or belly flying is that more and more people are overloading their reserve. When you are already at the ragged edge of common sense adding 10,000 feet to the mix might be all it takes.
But you are talking terminal deployment. If it is a premature deployment of you main and the main goes to shit, cutaway and fire the reserve. You will not be near terminal. If it is a premature fire on the reserve you better hope that you are not way over the max on the canopy.
But keep in mind, any canopy can come apart on any jump. That’s why it is so important to know your gear, know its design limits and take care of it as if your life depends on it.
But you are talking terminal deployment. If it is a premature deployment of you main and the main goes to shit, cutaway and fire the reserve. You will not be near terminal. If it is a premature fire on the reserve you better hope that you are not way over the max on the canopy.
But keep in mind, any canopy can come apart on any jump. That’s why it is so important to know your gear, know its design limits and take care of it as if your life depends on it.
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
riggerrob 643
reply]Are you sure? I've read many a thread where the dangers of a terminal reserve deployment at high altitudes have been warned against.
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This depends upon your definition of "high altitude."
There is little difference between air density at 1,000 feet (29.92 inches of mercury in ICAO Standard atmosphere) and 10,000 feet (19.92).
However there are dramatic differences at 20,000 (9.92) or 30,000. That is the military definition of "high altitude." Few civilians jump that high because of the added expense and complexity of oxygen, etc.
Thinner atmosphere above 20,000' results in far faster freefall, and that translates to higher airspeed. That higher airspeed causes harder openings that bruise jumpers and tear canopies.
In conclusion, 99 percent of the time, you are best off pulling a reserve ripcord one second after cutting away.
Delaying a reserve pull creates more problems than it solves.
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This depends upon your definition of "high altitude."
There is little difference between air density at 1,000 feet (29.92 inches of mercury in ICAO Standard atmosphere) and 10,000 feet (19.92).
However there are dramatic differences at 20,000 (9.92) or 30,000. That is the military definition of "high altitude." Few civilians jump that high because of the added expense and complexity of oxygen, etc.
Thinner atmosphere above 20,000' results in far faster freefall, and that translates to higher airspeed. That higher airspeed causes harder openings that bruise jumpers and tear canopies.
In conclusion, 99 percent of the time, you are best off pulling a reserve ripcord one second after cutting away.
Delaying a reserve pull creates more problems than it solves.
I'll do a search to try and find the threads I'm talking about.
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