The Swoop Streamer - Learning canopy manuvers with a visual reference at safe altitudes

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I just put a new article on the PCPRG web site in the "Skydiver" area. www.pcprg.com

"The Swoop Streamer - Learning canopy manuvers with a visual reference at safe altitudes."

Brian Germain and I were talking about this idea a while back. How to provide a way for people to practice and learn about aggressive front riser manuvers with a visual reference besides the (hard) ground.

We would love to have some input to this study, especially any descent rate results you come up with if you try this out. And especially for some of the lower wingloadings.

[pilotdave 0]

How about a sneaker instead? http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3673
Dave

[DJL 235]

A nerf football would be a good weight. Then you could slice and load the center as needed and have adequate paddying. I have heard of it used as training tool for CRW-dogs. Attaching a streamer would be even more fun.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[velvetjo 0]

A Piper Cub pilot I know swears by Scott toilet paper for a similar application. He drops the roll, and as it unravels he cuts it in half with a maneuver that looks like a lazy 8. Would be cool to see somebody do that with a canopy.

Lance

[pchapman 279]

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"The Swoop Streamer - Learning canopy manuvers with a visual reference at safe altitudes."

Gary & Brian will obviously realize that there could be problems in getting more than just a small amount of skills transfer from the 'training', to real swoops over ground.

A streamer just doesn't have the same visual picture & cues as the ground has. The streamer might help more when one is working to learn swooping a particular object (like an entry gate). On the other hand, the streamer drifts with the wind, so it isn't useful in training to plan one's approach for different wind conditions.

It concerns me that the descent rate of the streamer would tend to train a jumper to "aim low". A jumper just aiming straight for the top of the streamer may pass above it because it is moving down away from the aim point. Lead vs. lag pursuit curves come to mind. Not leading the streamer enough may also result in intercepts that succeed (and are successful in the jumper's mind), but only because the jumper maintained a high rate of descent without a full flare.

Aiming low and maintaining a high descent rate are not good behaviours to transfer to the real ground swoop.

All this reminds me of the experience some people will have in catching freebags under canopy. I've only done the airplane & toilet roll thing.

In any case it sounds like fun and may provide some extra canopy skills. I look forward to reports too.

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I understand all points and concerns.

I would not expect experienced jumpers to try to learn swoop landings using this device. (Actually, I think experienced jumpers would try it for the entertainment value.)

But for people who have never swooped anything, and need to do it up high, it seems like a good tool.

Thanks for the comments.

[BigSky 2]

This is just an idea and probably not such a good one but, If you had two kites with about 1500 feet of string and attached a long streamer to bolth of them you would have a gate of sorts to swoop at.

I think you would need steerable kites and two operators to keep them flying where they need to be.

This would be a lot of string but anything is possible

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[peek 21]

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This is just an idea and probably not such a good one but, If you had two kites with about 1500 feet of string and attached a long streamer to bolth of them you would have a gate of sorts to swoop at.

That's outrageous! And one of the most creative ideas I have heard lately.

It would be a lot of work, yes, but maybe for special occasions....

[BigSky 2]

Ya I dont think it would really be all that much work. Well reeling in the line would be.

I did just a quick search and found 1000ft spools of kite string.

http://www.aqueenscollection.com/dungeondetail.asp?id=2722

And this kite with a 50ft tail is only $20

[url]http://www.cobrakite.com/dancer1.html[url]

I think you could get it done for under $100, might be worth a try.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[BigSky 2]

Hey where did the kite go

http://www.cobrakite.com/dancer1.html


There it is

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[Liemberg 0]

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and found 1000ft spools of kite string

@ 1000ft I wouldn't mind hitting a 10 feet paper streamer - not sure if I would enjoy hitting 1000 feet of (Dynema? Kevlar? Spectra? ) kite string as much...

With a runway right next to the dunes and its entrance right next to a camp site, we have some "previous century" experience in what kite strings can do, albeit with a Cessna.

For a while, since local police had other priorities, one of the pilots thought it a good idea to do some 'vigilante law enforcement' with the kids that spiced up their holiday with 'kiting @ the threshold' (you get your kite the highest and/or the closest to the airfield and you win...). He rightfully thought that any kite he destroyed at heights wouldn't bother him for at least the rest of the day.

However, upon a yearly inspection somebody saw a tally of kite shaped symbols on the Cessna and decided to take a closer look at the wings. Lets say the aircraft owner wasn't amused when he got the bill...

Lets also say that the speed and the mass of the Cessna probably contributed to the dents in the wing. Does make one wonder if the speed and mass of a parachute and its pilot would also be enough to severe modern material kite string and if a kite string could deform a canopy ...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[Martini 0]

I've used monofilament fishing line for kite flying. Once had over 4000 feet of 4lb. test out, don't know how high the kite was. Took forever to reel it in. I don't think you can hurt yourself too badly with 4lb. line but ya never know. Kite swooping sounds like fun if the kite is a cheap stick/paper job so it (hopefully) won't hurt when someone hits it.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Liemberg 0]

Don't know about kite lines, but the link provided by one other poster in this thread said: "Plastic Spool Kite Line 50lb - up to 1000 feet"

IMO that can either mean that 1000ft of this line weights 50lb or the breaking strenght of this line is above 50lb with 1000ft of string unwined.

As the manuals of the early type ram air canopies used to say: "consider yourself a test pilot."

The 'kite-ace'-pilot mentioned (who also was a physicist) always theorized that since he would hit the string right underneath the kite it would break there and the built in elasticity of the string would make sure he wouldn't end up towing kids hands or fingers.

Since none of the parents on the campsite ever complained about one of their kids losing body parts while kiting, I guess he was right...
Nowadays we jump at our beach regularly. Part of my standard briefing for first timers there is "BEWARE OF KITES" (but of course those you find there are often the steerable type with a grown up on a kite-buggy attached...)

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[BigSky 2]

Well Im sure some precautions would be necessary. and I was thinking more about linking spools together to get up around 2000ft. I dont think you would want to swoop right at the kite rather beside it just to get an Idea of your dive.

“Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and their hopes and dreams. If I didn’t drink this beer, th

[peek 21]

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I just put a new article on the PCPRG web site in the "Skydiver" area. www.pcprg.com

"The Swoop Streamer - Learning canopy manuvers with a visual reference at safe altitudes."

BUMP for new info, 1647 FPM, flown with another canopy. More to come!

[Tenshi 0]

I don't really understand anything about all this...but if you ask me the most convenient answer hasn't been given yet.

Balloons on a string. String that breaks shitfast of course. So no fishing line or bridle type thingies. Just a very fragile kind of woolly thready kind of string.

If you fly into the lines they'd just break.

[peek 21]

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..the most convenient answer hasn't been given yet. Balloons on a string. String that breaks shitfast of course....

Damn good idea! I'm not sure about the convenience though. If there is only one balloon, it gives you only one shot at a swoop, and I think multiple balloons will get to be a hassle. But I like your thinkin'.

I might be trying this at some point. Me and my friend try to keep helium and balloons around the DZ.

[peek 21]

BUMP for new info, 1/2 ounce streamer, 1102 and 1190 FPM, probably good descent rate for novices.