Pity for the USA

[wmw999 2,556]

54 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Again - if the war he believes he is fighting was avoidable - your argument has merit, since it wasn't avoidable, then it simply doesn't.

There aren't a lot of rational people who blame Bush for 9/11. 

There aren't a lot of rational people who think that he doesn't bear some of the blame for going into Iraq, and ascribing some of the mayhem and deaths to decisions he made. That second one was what made him a "wartime president." And it was his calling it a war on terror that gave us the neato meme of having wartime now apply to something besides a declared war, but instead against an effectively unbeatable foe. Just so that we can have an enemy to focus on; something to be against. 

Wendy P.

[kallend 2,113]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

What exactly are you arguing?

Because Trump said he was a wartime president you are now allocating the covid deaths to him?

8 GOP led Congressional committees tried very hard (and unsuccessfully) to attribute FOUR American deaths to Hillary Clinton, as did just about every right winger who posts here.

[JerryBaumchen 1,450]

23 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Just so that we can have an enemy to focus on; something to be against. 

Hi Wendy,

'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.'

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,566]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Are you saying that he could have prevented the deaths? All?  Some?

How many - in rounded numbers?

Once again, you know the only person who ever claimed Trump could be totally responsible for preventing all Covid 19 deaths in the USA? Trump.

 

I mean, it's nice that you want to have this argument with him but I don't think he posts here.

Edited April 30, 2020 by jakee

[jakee 1,566]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

How much loathing does it take to go through and tally all that up?

How much bias and blind partisanship does it take to see Trump's failings in leadership laid so bare and only attack the messenger?

[jakee 1,566]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

That is probably a fair assessment.

What am I talking about - No way its that little.

Lol - you think associating the President with terrorism because of a fist bump takes less loathing than pointing out the President spends 10 times as much time patting himself on the back than expressing support for the nation during a time of national crisis?

 

You really do waste no opportunity to throw in a bit of petty, biased inanity.

Edited April 30, 2020 by jakee

[billvon 3,085]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

That's not reasonable.  I can see where if Trump sends 50000 people to Somewhereistan and they all get killed - its all on him - but not all the deaths from this bullshit.

I'll give him some culpability for how it was handled early on, but it just makes no logical sense to blame him for vietnam era numbers of deaths.

If he sent people to a region, and then just went golfing while they needed support, and they died - then yes, he would bear responsibility.

If he eliminated our pandemic response team, and then just went golfing when a pandemic hit, and tens of thousands died - then yes, he would bear responsibility.

Quote

Like I said earlier - It does look good as a "Gotcha" moment for the trump bashers, doesn't it?

You are the king of gotchas, so you would know.

But in the meantime, tens of thousands of Americans died who didn't have to, due to his actions and more importantly inactions.

 

[billvon 3,085]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

How much loathing does it take to go through and tally all that up?

Perhaps .5% of your loathing for the Clintons?  .1%?  Something like that.  (Especially since I didn't tally that up.)

[Phil1111 1,149]

3 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Trump has called himself a war time president, with the virus as the enemy. If your President is the Commander in Chief and he has declared himself the war time president, then the statement you quote is completely factual.

Completely correct.

[turtlespeed 226]

15 hours ago, kallend said:

8 GOP led Congressional committees tried very hard (and unsuccessfully) to attribute FOUR American deaths to Hillary Clinton, as did just about every right winger who posts here.

Yes, I was one of them.  

I have since changed my mind, at least on the direct culpability, and most of my view as a whole.

It was incorrect then, for her, and it is incorrect now, for him.

[kallend 2,113]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes, I was one of them.  

I have since changed my mind, at least on the direct culpability, and most of my view as a whole.

It was incorrect then, for her, and it is incorrect now, for him.

History will be the judge of that, it isn't over yet.

I doubt history will be kind to Trump.

[sfzombie13 324]

3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes, I was one of them.  

I have since changed my mind, at least on the direct culpability, and most of my view as a whole.

It was incorrect then, for her, and it is incorrect now, for him.

i just finished my bachelors degree in leadership.  one key principle was the leader is responsible for what happens under his watch.  benghazi = obama  covid19 =  trump.  end of discussion.  any questions?

[turtlespeed 226]

1 minute ago, sfzombie13 said:

i just finished my bachelors degree in leadership.  one key principle was the leader is responsible for what happens under his watch.  benghazi = obama  covid19 =  trump.  end of discussion.  any questions?

Yes.  What is the underlying purpose of having a single point of responsibility?

[sfzombie13 324]

responsibility, blame, whatever you want to call it.  the buck stops here and all that.  it doesn't really take a degree to figure it out, i actually ended up with a 2.72 gpa without studying much due to all the leadership courses from the military and my experience in management.  that is why hillary is not responsible and obama is, and also why trump is now, no matter how bad anyone else in the administration screws up.  he should have taken the course, in fact, it should be a requirement, at least a six month course or equivalent experience for any politician above county level, not political science, which is more manipulation and voodoo.

[DJL 235]

19 hours ago, kallend said:

8 GOP led Congressional committees tried very hard (and unsuccessfully) to attribute FOUR American deaths to Hillary Clinton, as did just about every right winger who posts here.

I love this "Stop wasting my time" face.

[airdvr 210]

1 minute ago, DJL said:

I love this "Stop wasting my time" face.

Thanks for reminding me of on of the reasons she didn't win.

[DJL 235]

25 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Thanks for reminding me of on of the reasons she didn't win.

I know.  Because people believed the bullshit accusations about her.  It's really incredible how easily people can be misled.

Edited May 1, 2020 by DJL

[gowlerk 2,256]

22 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Thanks for reminding me of on of the reasons she didn't win.

She is ten times the man Trump is.

[turtlespeed 226]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

She is ten times the man Trump is.

[airdvr 210]

50 minutes ago, DJL said:

I know.  Because people believed the bullshit accusations about her.  It's really incredible how easily people can be misled.

Not that at all.  It was the arrogant way she testified.  Talk about the ruling class...

[wmw999 2,556]

9 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not that at all.  It was the arrogant way she testified.  Talk about the ruling class...

How was she arrogant? She was polite, but sure of herself. Maybe if she had been a man and had that demeanor it would have been OK, but she is a woman.

Do you really think she behaved more like a ruling class than the current President, who wouldn't even cooperate with an inquiry, and who specifically instructed his employees not to as well?

Wendy P.

[billvon 3,085]

16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not that at all.  It was the arrogant way she testified.  Talk about the ruling class...

Compared to a man who felt he  . . . could grab women by the pussy, because he's famous enough to get away with it?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

Compared to a man who felt he  . . . could grab women by the pussy, because he's famous enough to get away with it?

I have a feeling a lot of his ardent defenders find that aspirational.

[jakee 1,566]

18 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not that at all.  It was the arrogant way she testified.  Talk about the ruling class...

Nonsense. Trump exemplifies arrogance both in the way he talks to people, the way he claims unmatched ability in just about any field you care to mention and the way he dealt with Congressional enquiries.

 

And class? Hillary was the daughter of a self made small business owner, Trump was born into a billionaire family and is the 3rd generation of Trump real estate moguls. He is the ruling class. He is everything that is meant as a pejorative when people moan about 'the elite'.

[DJL 235]

47 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Not that at all.  It was the arrogant way she testified.  Talk about the ruling class...

What do you think of the fact that this group of people who to whom she was testifying found no wrongdoing in her actions?