Minneapolis Allows Adhan for "Little Mogadishu"

[gowlerk 2,260]

2 minutes ago, markharju said:

In neither case is it happening fast enough.

It is not religion itself that is the driver of this murderous behavior. It is extremism. Just look at McVeigh/Nichols or other extremists of any stripe, political or religious.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It is not religion itself that is the driver of this murderous behavior. It is extremism. Just look at McVeigh/Nichols or other extremists of any stripe, political or religious.

I tend to agree, and when the extremism is both religious AND political, it's a lethal mixture. As for McVeigh - he got what he deserved but I wonder if he would have been motivated to commit such a horrid crime were it not for the obscenities of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Possibly.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Guest

[gowlerk 2,260]

21 minutes ago, markharju said:

I tend to agree, and when the extremism is both religious AND political, it's a lethal mixture. As for McVeigh - he got what he deserved but I wonder if he would have been motivated to commit such a horrid crime were it not for the obscenities of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Possibly.

So, you don't think that extremists in Iraq have their own atrocities to point to as justifications?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

So, you don't think that extremists in Iraq have their own atrocities to point to as justifications?

Wasn't being dismissive of others with legitimate grievances. Just wondering.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

So, you don't think that extremists in Iraq have their own atrocities to point to as justifications?

Hi Ken,

Such as that Navy Seal that Trump gave the Trident back to; his atrocities.

Jerry Baumchen

[olofscience 490]

Islam is frequently criticised for its treatment of women and the LGBT community.

Conservatives angrily attack the left for trying to push for closing the pay gap, defend Trump's treatment of women, and also vehemently oppose the LGBT movement for greater inclusivity.

 

I'm all for opposing all kinds of religion, but when a conservative starts criticising Islam I find it ironic that they have more in common than they would like to admit.

[gowlerk 2,260]

1 minute ago, markharju said:

Wasn't being dismissive of others with legitimate grievances. Just wondering.

The point is that none of these grievances can ever remotely justify murderous acts against non- combatants. Frankly I find your suggestion that Waco or Ruby Ridge is understandable as a motivation a little bit unsettling.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

Islam is frequently criticised for its treatment of women and the LGBT community.

Conservatives angrily attack the left for trying to push for closing the pay gap, defend Trump's treatment of women, and also vehemently oppose the LGBT movement for greater inclusivity.

 

I'm all for opposing all kinds of religion, but when a conservative starts criticising Islam I find it ironic that they have more in common than they would like to admit.

The most common defense from the christian right in the US appears to be that at least they don't kill them. Somehow they think that makes it all better.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

14 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

The most common defense from the christian right in the US appears to be that at least they don't kill them. Somehow they think that makes it all better.

And, of course, it isn't true.

While there aren't as many murders by extreme Christians, they have and do happen. 
Many are committed against abortion providers. 

[kallend 2,118]

14 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And, of course, it isn't true.

While there aren't as many murders by extreme Christians, they have and do happen. 
Many are committed against abortion providers. 

The hollowness of the pro-life Republicans and the Christian right  has never been more apparent than it is now.

[Coreece 190]

On 4/27/2020 at 1:13 PM, billvon said:

Though nothing prevented the mosque from broadcasting the Adhan, to begin with, the city council nonetheless added an official "okay" in May 2004. Later that year, the city amended its noise regulations to limit the volume of all religious sounds. Prior to this, other mosques in the Detroit area had been using loudspeakers to broadcast their calls to prayer without incident.

Ya, that's right where I grew up.  I remember hearing the call to prayer way back in the 80s during baseball practice and nobody ever seemed to give it a second thought.  My home town has always been a hot spot for new groups of immigrants, and after 9/11 there was an influx of more Arabs and more mosques started appearing in residential areas - and that's when people started complaining.

 

Back when I was bitter and overly critical of the Catholic Church, I used the same argument, "waddabout the churchbells!"  But to be honest, that's like comparing a grandfather clock to a set of bag pipes.

[jakee 1,571]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:44 PM, markharju said:

They actually did something useful when they existed - to tell the time. There aren't many left because they have been ruthlessly stomped out. In  Edinburgh, there are no churches left - they are all  mosques. Edit to add - seen this with my own eyes last October. Where's the righteous outrage over this disturbance?

Are you a bit touched?

 

[jakee 1,571]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:17 PM, markharju said:

FGM

Despite the absence of scriptural support, women and girls within Christian communities, including in Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria and Tanzania, do undergo FGM.[16] It has been found among Coptic Christians in Egypt, Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia, and Protestants and Catholics in Sudan and Kenya.[20] A 2013 UNICEF report identified 17 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15–49 had undergone it. In Niger, for example, 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, against two percent of Muslim women and girls.[23]

[gowlerk 2,260]

All the Abrahamic religions are patriarchal in nature. All of them have promoted misogyny. Some societies have rebelled against these backwards religions. That is the source of people claiming their rights to practice their beliefs  are being quashed.

[kallend 2,118]

13 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

All the Abrahamic religions are patriarchal in nature. All of them have promoted misogyny. Some societies have rebelled against these backwards religions. That is the source of people claiming their rights to practice their beliefs  are being quashed.

A number of years ago some of the Monty Python group did a live impromptu performance for WBEZ on the cost/benefit ratio of various religions, Consumer Reports style.  If it was recorded I have been unable to find it.

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Are you a bit touched?

You just can't stop the condescending insults, can you?

[jakee 1,571]

39 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You just can't stop the condescending insults, can you?

Shows its not all about you though eh?

 

But in all seriousness - someone who claims to have seen that there are no churches left in Edinburgh is either lying or hallucinating. I went with the more polite option to begin with.

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Shows its not all about you though eh?

 

But in all seriousness - someone who claims to have seen that there are no churches left in Edinburgh is either lying or hallucinating. I went with the more polite option to begin with.

. . . or mistaken . . . there are more options.

[jakee 1,571]

28 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

. . . or mistaken . . . there are more options.

No, that is not an option. Someone who claims to have been there and seen it for themself is not simply mistaken. 

 

Edinburgh isn't a particularly big place, and St Mary's Cathedral alone can be seen from miles away. That's not hyperbole, it's built on a fucking great hill in the middle of town. Its Google description includes the words "towers over the city" in the first sentence.

 

If you are suggesting that Mark may be so unbelievably stupid that he could visit Edinburgh in a lucid state of mind and come away genuinely believing that it contains no churches  then I'm afraid you are being far more condescending than me.

Edited April 29, 2020 by jakee

[turtlespeed 226]

16 minutes ago, jakee said:

No, that is not an option. Someone who claims to have been there and seen it for themself is not simply mistaken. 

 

Edinburgh isn't a particularly big place, and St Mary's Cathedral alone can be seen from miles away. That's not hyperbole, it's built on a fucking great hill in the middle of town. Its Google description includes the words "towers over the city" in the first sentence.

 

If you are suggesting that Mark may be so unbelievably stupid that he could visit Edinburgh in a lucid state of mind and come away genuinely believing that it contains no churches  then I'm afraid you are being far more condescending than me.

I'm suggesting that there are other possibilities.

[jakee 1,571]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

I'm suggesting that there are other possibilities.

There are no other options besides lying, hallucinating or being incredibly stupid. You only need to pretend there are because he's a conservative, and you absolutely must defend conservatives no matter what, even when you know they're in the wrong.

 

Imagine for a moment he was a liberal alleging wrongdoing by the christian majority against Muslims, and claimed he'd visited Dearborn and had seen for himself that all the mosques had been replaced by churches. What would you be saying then?

[olofscience 490]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

I'm suggesting that there are other possibilities.

Although I don't live in Edinburgh, I have several friends who live there, and I've visited a few times. I don't even remember seeing a single mosque, and there are LOTS of churches there.

There was also the outcry after Trump said there were "no-go" zones in London and Birmingham if I remember correctly.

There are valid reasons to criticise Islam, so why completely make things up? It just makes you untrustworthy.

[turtlespeed 226]

8 minutes ago, jakee said:

There are no other options besides lying, hallucinating or being incredibly stupid. You only need to pretend there are because he's a conservative, and you absolutely must defend conservatives no matter what, even when you know they're in the wrong.

 

Imagine for a moment he was a liberal alleging wrongdoing by the christian majority against Muslims, and claimed he'd visited Dearborn and had seen for himself that all the mosques had been replaced by churches. What would you be saying then?

I would think it to be hyperbole.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Although I don't live in Edinburgh, I have several friends who live there, and I've visited a few times. I don't even remember seeing a single mosque, and there are LOTS of churches there.

There was also the outcry after Trump said there were "no-go" zones in London and Birmingham if I remember correctly.

There are valid reasons to criticize Islam, so why completely make things up? It just makes you untrustworthy.

I don't disagree.  I also don't think he was intentionally lying.

 

[olofscience 490]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

I don't disagree.  I also don't think he was intentionally lying.

 

Hopefully.