WaPo: Wuhan Lab Allegedly Studying Bat Viruses in 2018

[ryoder 1,590]

10 hours ago, jakee said:

Trump is attacking the WHO simply because he needs something to attack.

Standard playbook for dictators. Eric Hoffer elaborated on it in his book published in 1951:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

[Guest]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:57 PM, billvon said:

So trying to cripple the world's #1 health organization during a pandemic is "the right thing?"

What's next?  A "stop autism - ban vaccines!" campaign during the next outbreak of measles?  After all, vaccine makers could be too beholden to China.

They (WHO) cripple themselves and the world by squandering US money on first-class airfare and 5-star hotels. See AP story in 2017 about WHO spending $200 MILLION on travel in ONE YEAR. Trump's suspended funding pending an audit. Robert Mugabe, FFS! That alone should make people want WHO to account for itself. This is just the tip of the iceberg...putting Saudi Arabia on the UN Human Rights Council? WTF?

[billvon 3,110]

5 hours ago, markharju said:

They (WHO) cripple themselves and the world by squandering US money on first-class airfare and 5-star hotels. See AP story in 2017 about WHO spending $200 MILLION on travel in ONE YEAR. Trump's suspended funding pending an audit. Robert Mugabe, FFS! That alone should make people want WHO to account for itself. This is just the tip of the iceberg...putting Saudi Arabia on the UN Human Rights Council? WTF?

Uh - it sorta makes sense to me the the world health organization (note the 'world' in there) spends a lot of money on travel.  In 2019 the NYP did a story on it and found the situation improved.  There were still some abuses (staffers sometimes breaking the rules and traveling business class - not first class, and people booking tickets at the last minute) but this is an organization that regularly flies hundreds of doctors all over the world.  Here in the US we spend $40 million a year in taxpayer money to fly one man to play golf; surely if we want to cut down on extravagant travel there are better places to start than the organization that fights pandemics worldwide.

We had about a month's warning before the pandemic hit here.  Want that to be two days next time?

[normiss 892]

Did US Intelligence know sooner?

[Guest]

No disagreement about fraud, waste and abuse at our top level but I have to tell you that it's only at the top level, where watchdogs are few and accountability minimal. When I worked in federal law enforcement (computer geek, not a badge), I had to travel a lot and thus had to account for every nickel of taxpayer money. Frequent flyer miles, and comps like passes and tickets due to being bumped, for example, had to be turned in. Strict limits on hotels, per diem, vehicle rentals, receipts, etc. had to be carefully accounted for lest one get a visit from Internal Affairs. That junket the Obamas made to Africa stands out in my memory because it was so appallingly expensive but there are lots more over the years. 45 called for an audit of WHO, but I agree that maybe he (and the members of Congress who go on fact-finding missions to the Bahamas each year) should spend more time in his office and less time spending our money to go traipsing around.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, normiss said:

Did US Intelligence know sooner?

Interesting if true but according to the timelines I've seen, even the CCP didn't know what was going on in Wuhan until Dec/Jan, and they run that show.

[billvon 3,110]

26 minutes ago, markharju said:

No disagreement about fraud, waste and abuse at our top level but I have to tell you that it's only at the top level, where watchdogs are few and accountability minimal. When I worked in federal law enforcement (computer geek, not a badge), I had to travel a lot and thus had to account for every nickel of taxpayer money. Frequent flyer miles, and comps like passes and tickets due to being bumped, for example, had to be turned in. Strict limits on hotels, per diem, vehicle rentals, receipts, etc. had to be carefully accounted for lest one get a visit from Internal Affairs.

I did the same thing when working for a government contractor.  (Travel paid by DOD.)  And a lot of it was worse than useless.  The time spent filling out the forms, the time spent recovering from jet lag from taking the redeye in the back of coach, the time spent finding a "compliant" hotel (often more expensive than the non-compliant hotel next door) meant that I wasted at least 2-3 days every trip.  And that time was paid for by taxpayers, too.  

But that way politicians can say "see?  sure, it might have been more expensive for you taxpayers, but at least there was suffering!"

The next job I had flew people business class for trips more than 6 hours.  Which meant you could get there and work the next day, so trips were a day or so shorter.  On one trip I flew all the way around the world in a week, and did 8 training sessions during that week. (UK, Finland, Japan, China, Taiwan.) I can only imagine how long that would have taken if I'd had to fly only US carriers in coach.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

I did the same thing when working for a government contractor.  (Travel paid by DOD.) 

You had it worse than I did. When I was a contractor, my company dealt with most of that stuff. For example, when I deployed to Djibouti, they (HR) bought me the airline ticket. I didn't have to deal with the paperwork but they politely forgot to tell me there was a ~$60 (in Djiboutian Francs) entry fee and I wasn't carrying cash. Things didn't start off well.

[kallend 2,146]

6 hours ago, markharju said:

They (WHO) cripple themselves and the world by squandering US money on first-class airfare and 5-star hotels. See AP story in 2017 about WHO spending $200 MILLION on travel in ONE YEAR. Trump's suspended funding pending an audit. Robert Mugabe, FFS! That alone should make people want WHO to account for itself. This is just the tip of the iceberg...putting Saudi Arabia on the UN Human Rights Council? WTF?

Doesn't seem bad when compared with the cost of golf trips for just one individual.
https://trumpgolfcount.com/

[jakee 1,594]

2 hours ago, normiss said:

Did US Intelligence know sooner?

That doesn't seem right. Even with retrospective investigations the first cluster of unexplained pneumonia cases in Wuhan that turned out to be Covid-19 happened in December. A claim that there were warnings being issued in early November makes no sense. 

[normiss 892]

7 minutes ago, jakee said:

That doesn't seem right. Even with retrospective investigations the first cluster of unexplained pneumonia cases in Wuhan that turned out to be Covid-19 happened in December. A claim that there were warnings being issued in early November makes no sense. 

Given the snooping intelligence agencies use, is it not possible some Chinese were discussing something new just not yet identified? Something to set off listeners?

Clearly no clue what was heard or reported, but I would think it's possible, just know some of the ways we listen to everything.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Doesn't seem bad when compared with the cost of golf trips for just one individual.
https://trumpgolfcount.com/

Don't forget that former Acting SecDef Modly spent $243,000 to fly to Guam and bitch out the crew of the Teddy Roosevelt for cheering their former Captain. 

9 minutes ago, jakee said:

That doesn't seem right. Even with retrospective investigations the first cluster of unexplained pneumonia cases in Wuhan that turned out to be Covid-19 happened in December. A claim that there were warnings being issued in early November makes no sense. 

 

Just now, normiss said:

Given the snooping intelligence agencies use, is it not possible some Chinese were discussing something new just not yet identified? Something to set off listeners?

Clearly no clue what was heard or reported, but I would think it's possible, just know some of the ways we listen to everything.

All sorts of things are possible.

But, in this particular case, the Pentagon has said that that report does not exist.

Read the story and follow the link in it to the ABC story. 
While I don't doubt the Pentagon would lie if it suited them, I tend to believe them in this instance.  

[wmw999 2,584]

3 minutes ago, normiss said:

Given the snooping intelligence agencies use, is it not possible some Chinese were discussing something new just not yet identified? Something to set off listeners?

Clearly no clue what was heard or reported, but I would think it's possible, just know some of the ways we listen to everything.

It's easy to go looking through information later, and finding something that looks suspicious only in retrospect. Think of all those "Lincoln/Kennedy parallels" memes of a number of years ago.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,594]

57 minutes ago, normiss said:

Given the snooping intelligence agencies use, is it not possible some Chinese were discussing something new just not yet identified? Something to set off listeners?

No, that's what I'm saying. Even retrospective investigation so far shows that the 'something new not yet identified' started happening in December.

 

The timeline doesn't show that there were any unexplained clusters of respiratory disease in Wuhan in early November.