wmw999 2,584 #26 April 15, 2020 The way forward would have been removing the President, not punishing Trump. That they have the same result is not the point -- look for the path beyond. Punishing someone is an end in and of itself. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #27 April 15, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, wmw999 said: Why should the US, and no other countries, have oversight of the WHO? Doesn't that make it a part of the US? Or do you think it's right that we are the first among "equals?" We can certainly take their inputs and evaluate them, and not just accept them wholesale. But by always having a finger on the scales of their evaluation, rather than evaluating their evaluation, we're surrounding ourselves with yes-men. Wendy P. Who watches the watchers? I apologize if I wrote that as if the US should be the worlds police for the WHO. I deliberately changed words in my edit to preclude that suggestion. We cannot have a Director General being influenced by his countries benefactors. Oversight has to be in place to protect the rest of us from that. There should be some checks and balances in place to protect from that. Perhaps the UN can oversee it? Properly? Edited April 15, 2020 by turtlespeed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #28 April 15, 2020 25 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: We cannot have a Director General being influenced by his countries benefactors. ?? The primary reason Trump has stopped funding the WHO is that he didn't have ENOUGH influence over the Director General! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #29 April 15, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Who watches the watchers? There is nothing that says that you have to believe or follow the WHO in the US. They are a valuable resource around the world. But, if the US has information that contradicts the WHO there is no obligation to follow WHO directives. They are a resource. Remember that the US with all its intelligence might was praising the WHO and China. If they knew better, why was your administration doing that? If they didn't know better, why did your own organizations fail? Edited to add: Keep in mind that your President was surprised to find out that antibiotics didn't work on a virus and that one of the administration mouth pieces is on state media saying that since this is Covid-19 and not Covid-1 the WHO should have already figured this out. The problem isn't the WHO, the problem appears to be that you have a complete idiot running your country. Edited April 15, 2020 by SkyDekker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #30 April 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, billvon said: ?? The primary reason Trump has stopped funding the WHO is that he didn't have ENOUGH influence over the Director General! That doesn't mean he didn't do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #31 April 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: That doesn't mean he didn't do the right thing for the wrong reasons. So trying to cripple the world's #1 health organization during a pandemic is "the right thing?" What's next? A "stop autism - ban vaccines!" campaign during the next outbreak of measles? After all, vaccine makers could be too beholden to China. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #32 April 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, billvon said: So trying to cripple the world's #1 health organization during a pandemic is "the right thing?" What's next? A "stop autism - ban vaccines!" campaign during the next outbreak of measles? After all, vaccine makers could be too beholden to China. If the WHO is corrupt and cannot be trusted to give accurate information because the leader of that organization is being controlled via political influence - shouldn't something be done? Shouldn't the immediate removal of that person take place? Isn't that the exact argument you have posed so many times regarding Trump being controlled by Putin? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #33 April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, turtlespeed said: If the WHO is corrupt and cannot be trusted to give accurate information because the leader of that organization is being controlled via political influence - shouldn't something be done? Shouldn't the immediate removal of that person take place? Absolutely. And no one has demonstrated that. Trump is angry because the WHO isn't giving him sufficient flattery - and he desperately needs a scapegoat. Want the real info? Go over the WHO's tweets early on. See if they were trying to "cover up" anything. Not an article from Breitbart, the actual tweets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #34 April 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, billvon said: Absolutely. And no one has demonstrated that. Trump is angry because the WHO isn't giving him sufficient flattery - and he desperately needs a scapegoat. Want the real info? Go over the WHO's tweets early on. See if they were trying to "cover up" anything. Not an article from Breitbart, the actual tweets. Sounds like someone agrees Trump should be removed. Interesting to hear that from a Trumpeteer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #35 April 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, normiss said: Sounds like someone agrees Trump should be removed. Interesting to hear that from a Trumpeteer. Then you haven't really been listening to what I stand for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #36 April 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: If the WHO is corrupt and cannot be trusted. . . . . How much MORE evidence do you need that Trump is a lying, corrupt, self-aggrandizing, ignorant con-man? (Additional adjectives omitted for brevity) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #37 April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, kallend said: How much MORE evidence do you need that Trump is a lying, corrupt, self-aggrandizing, ignorant con-man? (Additional adjectives omitted for brevity) Why is this about Trump now and not about the WHO? NEWS FLASH: There are more corrupt entities besides your exulted hated one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #38 April 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Why is this about Trump now and not about the WHO? NEWS FLASH: There are more corrupt entities besides your exulted hated one. It's called "Compare and contrast". Or in Biblical terms, see Matthew 7:5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #39 April 15, 2020 Just now, kallend said: It's called "Compare and contrast". Or in Biblical terms, see Matthew 7:5 You guys are funny, if not predictable. I don't read the bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #40 April 15, 2020 https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/ Interesting read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #41 April 15, 2020 48 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: Why is this about Trump now Because he decided to state his instruction to stop funding WHO. Part of his statements around that are not grounded in facts at this point. Secondly, my understanding is that the power of funding lays with Congress and that the president is generally prohibited from messing with that. Funny enough no conservative is mentioning that. (While of course in another thread exulting their love for law and constitution) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #42 April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, turtlespeed said: Why is this about Trump now and not about the WHO? Because you started defending Trump again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #43 April 15, 2020 NEWS FLASH - Washington, DC lab allegedly studied bat viruses BEFORE epidemic broke out. From the Smithsonian Magazine: =============== Studying these bats, researchers from the Smithsonian’s Global Health Program discovered six new coronaviruses, the same family of viruses as the one that causes COVID-19, which has infected more than 1.5 million people globally, including more than 459,000 in the United States. =============== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #44 April 15, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, turtlespeed said: You guys are funny, if not predictable. I don't read the bible. You should. It's part of our culture even if you are not a believer. Like Shakespeare or Star Trek. (And you can beat the fundies at their own game). Edited April 15, 2020 by kallend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,273 #45 April 15, 2020 49 minutes ago, kallend said: You should. It's part of our culture even if you are not a believer. Like Shakespeare or Star Trek. (And you can beat the fundies at their own game). I only read the original King James version of the Bible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #46 April 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, gowlerk said: I only read the original King James version of the Bible. Oxymoron much? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 492 #47 April 16, 2020 11 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Why is this about Trump now and not about the WHO? Because the problem is now in the US, people are dying in the US, the economic hardship is now in the US? First question is, who's in charge of the US? Follow up questions could be: If the WHO was corrupt, why was the US fooled so easily? Taiwan, which is China's adversary, an ally of the US is not a member of the WHO (or the UN for that matter). No matter what China or the WHO said they mounted an effective, early response. So why did the US believe China or the WHO? Did the President not have advisers? Why were they not aware of China's history of cover-ups? Did the US Intelligence community fail to get Taiwan's intel on China? Did the President ignore briefings from the Pentagon about this? Did the Pentagon fail completely to detect this threat? If the US wasn't fooled... what happened to February? Either 1) or 2) is true and both cannot be true at the same time. Both lead to uncomfortable questions that I don't hear any conservative asking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #48 April 16, 2020 15 hours ago, turtlespeed said: I don't have the one sided, hate driven, blinders on, "You're either with us or against us!" mentality that a lot of the posters here do. I support the office of the POTUS. Not the man in office. I'm sorry if you cannot, or will not, see the difference. And yet you're still making up stuff that Obama didn't say as a reason to dislike him, while simultaneously defending Trump himself against almost every criticism that comes his way. Quote So - the farther left you push and prod and demand everyone go to - the farther in opposition you will find me. Also, the closer to the middle you get - the closer to the middle you will find me. And the farther right other posters get, what we find from you is crickets. Thanks for finally admitting that your posting habits are still knowingly and intentionally driven by your right wing bias. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #49 April 16, 2020 13 hours ago, turtlespeed said: If the WHO is corrupt and cannot be trusted to give accurate information because the leader of that organization is being controlled via political influence - shouldn't something be done? Shouldn't the immediate removal of that person take place? You've got to go a fucking long way before you can remove the 'if' at the front of that sentence, though. Maybe, at the very earliest stages of the outbreak, they were too trusting of what China was saying, but that was all the information that was available at the time. Very, very quickly they reacted to more information becoming available and were sounding warning sirens that were not heeded, publishing advice that was ignored and even offering material help (tests that worked) that was rejected. Trump is attacking the WHO simply because he needs something to attack. It's been said many times that he's been struggling with his PR approach to Covid-19 because you can't insult a virus or call it silly names and that's how he always deflects criticism away from himself. Well now he's found something he can have a fight with, but the way he's doing it is going to have serious real world consequences for a long time to come if the decision is not reversed. Quote Why is this about Trump now and not about the WHO? Becasue this thread was not about the WHO to begin with, and since your posts about the WHO are a result of you being led by the nose by Trump and the right wing spin machine it's fair to talk about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,465 #50 April 16, 2020 10 hours ago, jakee said: Trump is attacking the WHO simply because he needs something to attack. Hi jakee, This has been the mantra of his entire presidency. I often wonder how he sleeps at nite. What a strange person he is. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
