WaPo: Wuhan Lab Allegedly Studying Bat Viruses in 2018

[Guest]

Fascinating if true. The WaPo story is behind a reg wall/paywall but you can ready it elsewhere too:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

“In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington."

“The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help,” The Post added. “The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.”

The January 2018 cable stated that the U.S. officials who had repeatedly visited the lab “noted the new lab ha[d] a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory.”

“Most importantly, the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus,” the cable continued. “This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.”

If true, this would explain a great deal of what has been going on. It doesn't let the CCP off the hook.

 

[kallend 2,146]

3 hours ago, markharju said:

Fascinating if true. The WaPo story is behind a reg wall/paywall but you can ready it elsewhere too:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

“In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington."

“The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help,” The Post added. “The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.”

The January 2018 cable stated that the U.S. officials who had repeatedly visited the lab “noted the new lab ha[d] a serious shortage of appropriately trained technicians and investigators needed to safely operate this high-containment laboratory.”

“Most importantly, the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus,” the cable continued. “This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.”

If true, this would explain a great deal of what has been going on. It doesn't let the CCP off the hook.

 

Doesn't let the State Department or the US administration off the hook either.

[turtlespeed 226]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Doesn't let the State Department or the US administration off the hook either.

Lets start with step one and go from there.

Lets not let ANYone off the hook.

[wmw999 2,584]

50 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Lets start with step one and go from there.

Lets not let ANYone off the hook.

Yes, but we can fix ourselves, and we can't fix China. Therefore, logic would dictate that we try to fix ourselves first.

It's kind of like psychotherapy or addiction -- you work on yourself; you can't change either the rest of the world (not even your spouse, parents, or children). If you just can't accept, then you have to block the other party off. And if you're a dependent (as we are with China), then it's harder and more expensive.

So let's work on what the US can do, and invest less in what we think China should do.

Wendy P.

[turtlespeed 226]

8 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Yes, but we can fix ourselves, and we can't fix China. Therefore, logic would dictate that we try to fix ourselves first.

It's kind of like psychotherapy or addiction -- you work on yourself; you can't change either the rest of the world (not even your spouse, parents, or children). If you just can't accept, then you have to block the other party off. And if you're a dependent (as we are with China), then it's harder and more expensive.

So let's work on what the US can do, and invest less in what we think China should do.

Wendy P.

Well since China can influence the WHO because of the WHO's leaderships ties to China, no one should be complaining about not wanting to be part of the WHO anymore.

Kinda like distancing yourself from the dealer.

[olofscience 492]

14 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Well since China can influence the WHO because of the WHO's leaderships ties to China, no one should be complaining about not wanting to be part of the WHO anymore.

Kinda like distancing yourself from the dealer.

From the news - it's done.

Now what?

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Lets not let ANYone off the hook.

I'm betting you're going to let Trump off the hook.

[turtlespeed 226]

3 minutes ago, olofscience said:

From the news - it's done.

Now what?

I'm betting you're going to let Trump off the hook.

Nope.  Hold him to the same standard as you do all of the politicians that made mistakes.

Vote him out, if the job he did was not acceptable.

Edited April 15, 2020 by turtlespeed

[olofscience 492]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Nope.  Hold him to the same standard as you do all of the politicians that made mistakes.

Vote him out, if the job he did was not acceptable.

Fair.

Election is in November though. How about between now and then? Is everything being done right at the moment? What could people do better?

[turtlespeed 226]

1 minute ago, olofscience said:

Fair.

Election is in November though. How about between now and then? Is everything being done right at the moment? What could people do better?

Lynching?

[olofscience 492]

1 minute ago, turtlespeed said:

Lynching?

My opinion of you was improving until you dodged the question. It didn't take long though.

[turtlespeed 226]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

My opinion of you was improving until you dodged the question. It didn't take long though.

I take these conversation mostly light-hearted.  No one here is going to change the world, despite how important they feel they are here. 

So - yes - besides lynching - there is not much more anyone CAN do - not legally.

The democrats tried to do their thing.  They tried to impeach (WAY to soon. but thats another thread worthy topic)  The Republicans played their hand, and won.

The DNC is putting their "Best Guy" forward for the election. We'll see how that goes.

Other than that - there is little that can be done, politically.

 

However; if you are referring to the actual people and their own doings, then I think we have had more people acquiesce here in the states, than anyone really expected. 

We like our freedoms here, and we don't let them go easily.  The population here can be quite stubborn, and insolent. 

Personally, I think more people have shown personal responsibility for their actions, responses, and submission to the covid threat than a lot of people expected. 

 

Does that answer your question?

Did you have a more specific idea in mind about "doing better"?

 

[billvon 3,109]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Well since China can influence the WHO because of the WHO's leaderships ties to China, no one should be complaining about not wanting to be part of the WHO anymore.

So should we abandon the US economy due to its strong ties to China, and China's ability to influence it?  How about Trump?  He has strong leadership ties to China, and regularly flatters Xi.

Or is that "different?"

[olofscience 492]

10 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Did you have a more specific idea in mind about "doing better"?

Of course.

1. Is anyone asking, is the CDC funding going to change, especially since his proposed budget actually slashed the CDC's budget from 2019? Are steps being taken to improve preparedness for the next pandemic?
2. Is there going to be a coordinated, unified effort to procure and distribute PPE for first responders? Is there coordinated, unified plan to model and allocate hospital bed capacity between states or is it okay just to let them struggle on their own?
3. Are there metrics being established to provide guidance to states on when and how to re-open the economy?

In contrast, what I can see Trump is doing:

• attack the media
• de-fund the WHO
• argue with governors that he has "absolute power" about re-opening the economy and not provide any metrics to provide guidance for
• blame China
• let states compete with each other, and compete with the federal government, in acquisition of vital equipment
• insist his name is on the stimulus cheques

19 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

We like our freedoms here, and we don't let them go easily.

Well one of the freedoms you have, is to ask QUESTIONS.

20 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Other than that - there is little that can be done, politically.

One of the most important things you can do, is ask questions. (about HOW to fix the problem, not whose fault it is).

30 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

there is not much more anyone CAN do

Don't underestimate the power of asking questions. People think saying something "offensive" or "un-PC" is a mark of honesty and freedom, and why some people like Trump. I disagree. It's ridiculously easy to say something offensive. What's not easy is asking meaningful questions that make those in power uncomfortable answering.

 

[turtlespeed 226]

23 minutes ago, billvon said:

Or is that "different?"

Not at all.

I think you are trying to assign me a support for Trump that is based in your assumptions.

[billvon 3,109]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I think you are trying to assign me a support for Trump that is based in your assumptions.

Based on your posts, actually.  You claim over and over that you don't support Trump.  But you defend his actions and attack any opposition candidate endlessly.

"Believe what people do, not what they say."

[olofscience 492]

7 minutes ago, billvon said:

"Believe what people do, not what they say."

And what they don't do. The absolute lack of their questions about Trump's actions. Unquestioning loyalty as he demands. You'd think this was Xi's China, not the freedom-loving USA.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

And what they don't do. The absolute lack of their questions about Trump's actions. Unquestioning loyalty as he demands. You'd think this was Xi's China, not the freedom-loving USA.

That is a little embellished and over reaching, if you are being serious.

 

[olofscience 492]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

That is a little embellished and over reaching, if you are being serious.

 

Sorry, maybe not you.

But I certainly see it a lot from Trump supporters.

[turtlespeed 226]

14 minutes ago, billvon said:

Based on your posts, actually.  You claim over and over that you don't support Trump.  But you defend his actions and attack any opposition candidate endlessly.

"Believe what people do, not what they say."

Not exactly.

I don't have the one sided, hate driven, blinders on, "You're either with us or against us!" mentality that a lot of the posters here do.

I support the office of the POTUS.  Not the man in office.  I'm sorry if you cannot, or will not, see the difference.

I don't always agree. I don't always disagree. We have what we have in office right now. It is the hand we have been dealt at this moment.

I spend the same energy you do, as you complain and rant against him.  It must make you feel better.

I just spend it trying to make the best of what we have.  It makes me feel better.

So - the farther left you push and prod and demand everyone go to - the farther in opposition you will find me.  Also, the closer to the middle you get - the closer to the middle you will find me.

[turtlespeed 226]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Sorry, maybe not you.

But I certainly see it a lot from Trump supporters.

I haven't seen any Trump supporters supporting China, and Xi.  It has been the Trump supporters, in my experience, that have vilified China and Xi for manipulation of the information, and distribution of the DIS-information.  It is the Trump supporters that see the WHO as being the puppet of China, and one of the reasons that this pandemic is where it is today.

Those claims may be slightly misplaced, but not by much. 

From the onset, I have been saying we can't trust the numbers from China.  Posters here were suggesting that we could, or should, because the WHO said it trusted China more than it did Trump.

How are those numbers now?  Some estimate that the real numbers of infected are closer to 3 million.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/us/politics/cia-coronavirus-china.html

 

[olofscience 492]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

I haven't seen any Trump supporters supporting China, and Xi.  It has been the Trump supporters, in my experience, that have vilified China and Xi for manipulation of the information, and distribution of the DIS-information.

You misunderstood me, I meant Trump supporters are too unquestioning of their Dear Leader.

They do not find it ironic, that they're behaving exactly like the China they vilify.

I've never trusted China's numbers. But Trump's lap dogs are pointing to them as if blaming them will fix the problems that are now at home.

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It is the Trump supporters that see the WHO as being the puppet of China, and one of the reasons that this pandemic is where it is today.

As I've said again and again - even IF it is a complete puppet of China, de-funding them now won't fix the problems in the US now. It's not even a start.

The reason you should ask questions shouldn't be to feel better, it's to find solutions. Asking the right questions gets you halfway there.

[wmw999 2,584]

The right solution forward rarely involves punishing someone. 

Wendy P.

[turtlespeed 226]

3 minutes ago, olofscience said:

You misunderstood me, I meant Trump supporters are too unquestioning of their Dear Leader.

They do not find it ironic, that they're behaving exactly like the China they vilify.

I've never trusted China's numbers. But Trump's lap dogs are pointing to them as if blaming them will fix the problems that are now at home.

As I've said again and again - even IF it is a complete puppet of China, de-funding them now won't fix the problems in the US now. It's not even a start.

The reason you should ask questions shouldn't be to feel better, it's to find solutions. Asking the right questions gets you halfway there.

 

I did misunderstand you.  I can also see why you think that way.  Please take into consideration that what you see is what the media is putting out, and not necessarily what the majority of conservatives believe.

De-funding the WHO is a step in the right direction.  It also puts a statement out that we are not willing to accept their decisions to act in the way they chose to.  Personally, I think there should have been a suspension of funding, not the knee jerk reaction so common to Trump, until an agreement can be made to have oversight in some way.

Doing the right thing always makes me feel better.  For me, and what I think is right, I do ask the right questions.  I am confident that you feel the same way, and think you ask the right questions too.

 

[wmw999 2,584]

Why should the US, and no other countries, have oversight of the WHO? Doesn't that make it a part of the US? Or do you think it's right that we are the first among "equals?"

We can certainly take their inputs and evaluate them, and not just accept them wholesale. But by always having a finger on the scales of their evaluation, rather than evaluating their evaluation, we're surrounding ourselves with yes-men.

Wendy P.

[JerryBaumchen 1,465]

22 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

The right solution forward rarely involves punishing someone. 

Hi Wendy,

Re:  'The right solution forward'

I'm glad you said 'rarely', because if the Senate had convicted Trump we could have moved forward with less craziness than we have now.

Jerry Baumchen