Joe being Joe

[turtlespeed 226]

6 minutes ago, jakee said:

Can you provide a link to the thousands of posts you have spent discussing Brussels sprouts on this forum?

Do your own homework.

[wmw999 2,583]

17 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

When I say "last great hope" - I mean only that he was chosen to beat trump.  That is his job at this point.  (Not that Trump isn't trying to undo himself.  )

That, according to the posters here, is really all he is good for.  In fact, how i read some of the posts here, it is said by more than just a few, that he isn't much better than Trump, but he is the lesser of two evils. 

If you're reading that he isn't much better than Trump, then you're using your right-glasses again. He's a damaged candidate in the icky-sexual-conduct category (and possible assault). But is most of the ways of governance, many people think he'll be an incredible improvement over Trump. Because he won't be spending all his time drumming up his popularity, and engaging in popularity contests with people he sees as his competitors for the center of attention.

Even if he doesn't take the country into a strong direction (he's VERY likely to be a one-termer if elected, regardless of anything), it'll be to some degree the same kind of thing as when Ford took over the presidency. Ford's main accomplishment was to return the country to feeling as though our political system could be trusted within its boundaries. Now that may have been optimistic, but those were simpler pre-computer days.

That's why I'd rather have Biden than Trump, between those realistic choices. I don't think he's the last great hope for humanity or the country, but a recovery from a ruinous financial path (yeah, the stock market is good, but the debt is getting incredible -- it hasn't been paid off since Andrew Jackson, but trying to reduce at least the deficit during boom times is a good goal), a direction of "cooperation is better than dog-eat-dog competition" (that whole "united we stand, divided we fall" thing), those alone are a good start for me.

Wendy P.

[wmw999 2,583]

To continue (and disguise the double post because I got a notification during the last one ).

If you think the country's financial, social, and political path has been improved over the last four years, then I guess Trump is for you. I don't, therefore it's incumbent on me to choose the best alternative. In years when I don't care as much, or when my vote doesn't really matter a lot, I can make my statement by voting third party, even though they have no realistic chance of being elected to a nationwide post (yes, aliens could attack, too). But this year I won't.

Wendy P.

Edited April 29, 2020 by wmw999

[jakee 1,593]

31 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Do your own homework.

OK. In 2015 you said you grow your own Brussels Sprouts and you love them.

Crikey, turns out Trump is a Brussels Sprout. When it's expedient you caim to dislike them, but there's no way anyone could guess that because every other time you post about them it's defence and praise.

[turtlespeed 226]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

OK. In 2015 you said you grow your own Brussels Sprouts and you love them.

Crikey, turns out Trump is a Brussels Sprout. When it's expedient you caim to dislike them, but there's no way anyone could guess that because every other time you post about them it's defence and praise.

I may love growing them - but I have only had 3 experiences in 50 years that I could say I even tolerated eating them.  

 

[jakee 1,593]

11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I may love growing them - but I have only had 3 experiences in 50 years that I could say I even tolerated eating them.  

"But the ones out of my garden aren't bitter at all. 

Just "green" tasting & crunchy. Delicious either raw or steamed."

 

Lol, I had no idea that "delicious" was a synonym for 'barely tolerable but I enjoyed growing them' See, it literally is exactly like Trump - you claim now to dislike them, but your other posts tell a very different story. Thanks for bringing that example up, it's very illuminating.

[turtlespeed 226]

11 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

To continue (and disguise the double post because I got a notification during the last one ).

If you think the country's financial, social, and political path has been improved over the last four years, then I guess Trump is for you. I don't, therefore it's incumbent on me to choose the best alternative. In years when I don't care as much, or when my vote doesn't really matter a lot, I can make my statement by voting third party, even though they have no realistic chance of being elected to a nationwide post (yes, aliens could attack, too). But this year I won't.

Wendy P.

I do not disagree with a lot of what you said.  

It would be really nice to have someone in the White House that is the embodiment of the idea of the old school respected POTUS from years long gone by.

Again - I have stated and will keep stating, that I will not, and HAVE not ever voted for Trump.  Whether you believe me, or not, is not my problem anymore.  It gets old.

As far as Biden as a candidate, if he were up against anyone else but Trump, not many on the left would be voting for him.  His own POTUS whom he was Vice to waited until after the DNC decision to back him.  HRC just YESTERDAY, conceded, and put her weight behind him.

To me, that is very telling.

The issue that is the sexual assault is concerning.  It is possibly a hoax.  It may just be a product of acceptable behavior at the time.  (I'd be willing to bet that it is the latter.) Things are different now, and if you are acting as society accepts today, you may well be vilified for it in the years to come.

Biden doesn't seem to have the spine that it takes to be POTUS.  He doesn't have the presence for POTUS. I am pretty confident that he won't make it through his term, and we will actually be electing a VP as president.

I will make this statement, though:  If the VP candidate is strong enough, I will vote for that Duo.

 

Taking all that I said above as a separate issue from Trump.  I know some of you won't be able to.  I know that.  (But I keep hoping.) Because the two thing can be separate issues.

Trump does not have the Character that a POTUS needs to be successful in politics.  He doesn't have the presence either.  He doesn't have the couth.   He does have a spine, though.  He puts himself out there and fights for his beliefs. (As misguided as they may be sometimes <eyeroll>  Good or bad, its an admirable trait. (I'l even give credence to HRC for doing the same thing.)

So - in a nutshell, in my opinion, we need to be very wary when we choose to elect Biden, because I feel we won't really be voting for Biden, we will be voting for his second.

 

[turtlespeed 226]

10 minutes ago, jakee said:

"But the ones out of my garden aren't bitter at all. 

Just "green" tasting & crunchy. Delicious either raw or steamed."

 

Lol, I had no idea that "delicious" was a synonym for 'barely tolerable but I enjoyed growing them' See, it literally is exactly like Trump - you claim now to dislike them, but your other posts tell a very different story. Thanks for bringing that example up, it's very illuminating.

I don't remember that - But I admit I'ts possible.  So my analogy is flawed.

Please post a link to the post for reference.

[DJL 235]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:34 PM, turtlespeed said:

Political guidance?  Come on Bill - that statement is ridiculous.  

Would you agree with Bin Laden if he had said the same thing about Trump of Pence?

It should mean something to you that foreign leaders, especially those opposed to us, or in a war with us, desire Biden in office, because they believe he would weaken us.

I don't think it's ridiculous.  That bit of script was picked up year and years ago and is now being touted as propaganda against Biden from the mouth of Osama Bin Laden.  To be clear THIS IS PROPAGANDA FROM THE MOUTH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN.  Do you really want to echo this source as being legitimate to the goals of the United States of America?

[turtlespeed 226]

Just now, DJL said:

I don't think it's ridiculous.  That bit of script was picked up year and years ago and is now being touted as propaganda against Biden from the mouth of Osama Bin Laden.  To be clear THIS IS PROPAGANDA FROM THE MOUTH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN.  Do you really want to echo this source as being legitimate to the goals of the United States of America?

Nope - I want to bring all info to the forefront.  That way everyone has as much of the whole picture as possible.

[wmw999 2,583]

4 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It would be really nice to have someone in the White House that is the embodiment of the idea of the old school respected POTUS from years long gone by.

That person doesn't exist. No one has zero faults, and with the investigative nature of journalism and past-research now, there is a huge focus on the faults of anyone. Even Skippy the Wonder Dog (BTW -- I expect royalties on him!). This makes it easy to point out the faults of the other guy, while eliding over your guy's faults because "no one is perfect."

7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

As far as Biden as a candidate, if he were up against anyone else but Trump, not many on the left would be voting for him.  His own POTUS whom he was Vice to waited until after the DNC decision to back him.  HRC just YESTERDAY, conceded, and put her weight behind him.

...

Biden doesn't seem to have the spine that it takes to be POTUS.  He doesn't have the presence for POTUS. 

Why do you think that Biden has no spine? Is it just that he doesn't glower? I know it's not the latest meme off Fox or the blogosphere.

And there were a lot of people in the primaries who voted for Biden, over all those other candidates. Yeah, he won by plurality, not a majority in most venues. But that's how the system works, at least until we implement ranked-choice voting. And yeah, he doesn't excite me, but neither did any of the candidates in 2016, and I still voted.

Someone will be elected President (barring that declaration of a state of emergency or coup d'état), so I'm making a statement that the choice is irrelevant if I choose not to participate. And in this case, I do NOT think the choice is irrelevant.

Wendy P.

[DJL 235]

12 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Nope - I want to bring all info to the forefront.  That way everyone has as much of the whole picture as possible.

This  is the second place I've seen the bit come up and it's said in ignorance that our enemies will say whatever they can to harm our country.  There is no good-faith reason to echo insults hurled by the perpetrator of the most horrible terrorist attack ever committed against the United States.

Edited April 29, 2020 by DJL

[jakee 1,593]

15 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Please post a link to the post for reference.

Just so we're both clear about this - are you asking me to do your homework for you?

Quote

So my analogy is flawed.

No, it's spot on.

Edited April 29, 2020 by jakee

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Why do you think that Biden has no spine? Is it just that he doesn't glower? I know it's not the latest meme off Fox or the blogosphere.

 

I rarely watch Fox, so I hope you weren't lumping me into a box with others.

He was against the mission to get Bin Laden.  He was for the Iraq war, like most were, then, when it wasn't conveinient, he was against it.  His votes for action are only taken if he is in concession with a majority.  He doesn't lead.  He follows.

[turtlespeed 226]

7 minutes ago, DJL said:

This  is the second place I've seen the bit come up and it's said in ignorance that our enemies will say whatever they can to harm our country.  There is no godd-faith reason to echo insults hurled by the perpetrator of the most horrible terrorist attack ever committed against the United States.

Well, no, not unless they are true.

In which case there is only one real true way to defeat that kind of thing . . .

Just remember when Vizzini was challenged by the Dread Pirate Roberts to a battle of wits . . .

Edited April 29, 2020 by turtlespeed

[Phil1111 1,168]

11 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I rarely watch Fox, so I hope you weren't lumping me into a box with others.

He was against the mission to get Bin Laden. 

He was not against killing Bin Laden. He agreed with Secretary of Defense Robert Gates that more intel was needed to confirm the mission.We have all read the sources of your opinions and they are FOX or worse.

So just give more credit to Obama. It seems as if you had a derogatory opinion of President Carter. Who ended up taking the blame for the failed Operation Eagle Claw. Which was bold and whose failure was not his fault.

You should have been a Washington negotiator on Indian tribes in the west back in the 1800's. Because you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You could have eliminated every reservation all together. Republicans would have given you a parade in your honor for that achievement.

[turtlespeed 226]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

He was not against killing Bin Laden. He agreed with Secretary of Defense Robert Gates that more intel was needed to confirm the mission.We have all read the sources of your opinions and they are FOX or worse.

So just give more credit to Obama. It seems as if you had a derogatory opinion of President Carter. Who ended up taking the blame for the failed Operation Eagle Claw. Which was bold and whose failure was not his fault.

You should have been a Washington negotiator on Indian tribes in the west back in the 1800's. Because you talk out of both sides of your mouth. You could have eliminated every reservation all together. Republicans would have given you a parade in your honor for that achievement.

Different times back then.  

What would you have been - 

[Phil1111 1,168]

24 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

... then, when it wasn't conveinient, he was against it.  His votes for action are only taken if he is in concession with a majority.  He doesn't lead.  He follows.

As compared to trump who can flip and flop like a freshly caught bass in the bottom of a boat. Reverse himself every time he turns his head because two people are whispering in each ear.

[turtlespeed 226]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

As compared to trump who can flip and flop like a freshly caught bass in the bottom of a boat. Reverse himself every time he turns his head because two people are whispering in each ear.

Nope - Not compared to Trump - 

I knew the separation was going to be difficult. I try to have hope, though.

Separate the Trump out of the argument.  

[normiss 891]

I'm curious about Russian involvement in the election. Again. Still.

[turtlespeed 226]

41 minutes ago, normiss said:

I'm curious about Russian involvement in the election. Again. Still.

I'm interested if they will still want to back Trump at this point.

Maybe they switched horses for the new race.

[JerryBaumchen 1,461]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

I'm curious about Russian involvement in the election. Again. Still.

Hi Mark,

Are you talking about turtlespeed?

Jerry Baumchen

[normiss 891]

23 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Mark,

Are you talking about turtlespeed?

Jerry Baumchen

Hey Jerry,

No, LOL.

The accuser to Biden is getting some attention about possible Russian involvement. Looks like a few are looking into it.

I dismissed it when the investigation was dismissed as it doesn't appear to have any evidence of anything. I'm pretty sure the Russian election meddling is trying to throw shade on Biden though. Russia and China need to keep Trump in office in order to continue to see returns on their investments in him.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

6 hours ago, DJL said:

This  is the second place I've seen the bit come up and it's said in ignorance that our enemies will say whatever they can to harm our country.  There is no good-faith reason to echo insults hurled by the perpetrator of the most horrible terrorist attack ever committed against the United States.

Sure there is.

Trumpettes use it to hurt Biden.

The very simple fact that they are quoting someone who hated America in order to support someone who is destroying America is completely lost on them due to the fact that they've been conned into believing the 'left' is going to destroy the country with 'Socialism'.

[brenthutch 444]

I never thought it possible but the Dems have found another candidate that may loose to Trump.  Word is that Biden’s handlers won’t even let him debate Trump.  If the economy is even close to bouncing back, hello to for more years and goodbye to RBG.