wildman2231 0 #1 June 8, 2006 after recent tragedies, Bless all those involved. I was watching my vids I have downloaded and read all the ugly speculative posts about tandem harnesses. If you havnt seen this vid or have, Please take the time to watch the camera angle below angles of the 3 or 4 tandems at deployment. also freefall tension on lower connecting points. You CAN and WILL see how this can happen. You can dam near read the label on the one students back at deployment. On a couple of others they look pretty tight. I felt it appropriate to mention it here after reading all the flaming bulldogging I read here. Experienced or not, worth a look. Hope it opens some eyes. Cool video anyway. I was almost in shock at the amount of separation! Good example for TI's to watch I would think.I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #3 June 8, 2006 http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1458&string=tribute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 June 8, 2006 I saw nothing wrong with the way those harnesses were adjusted in the video. Some instructors like to have the lateral connections a little loose, some tighter, it has no effect on the fit of the harness to the passenger. The harness, not the TI's body, is what keeps the student contained on deployment. Some instructors like to "trap" the students legs on deployment to keep them from swinging forward so much, but it's not required. In fact the only things I saw in that video I didn't like were the cameraflyer playing with the drogue bridle, and the TI allowing the student to get a death grip on his right arm. Please try to find out more about tandems before sensationalizing a non-issue.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #5 June 8, 2006 That was a pretty prime video. A foot in the frame through deployment is like nails on a chalkboard to me but that's a personal issue. I otherwise loved the angles. It made me want to get to the DZ to shoot vid instead of taking a weekend off as I'd planned."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman2231 0 #6 June 8, 2006 I was just wondering if having the lowers tighter might help prevent a short pear shaped person from coming through there. I understand that the passengers harness needs to fit properly first. Thanks for shedding light on this for me, as I obviously dont have anywhere near your experience or knowledge. I'm constantly grilled and drilled for safety and I'm glad for any feedback to my questions. But still, Could it have made a difference? I believe its the 2nd deployment in the vid I'm referring to. I certainly dont question any instructors methods or abilities here, and I like the vid. It was just an observation. Thanks, Blue skiesI'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #7 June 8, 2006 Quote A foot in the frame through deployment is like nails on a chalkboard to me but that's a personal issue. And to think, with him it was intentional He liked to get a foot or hand or both in EVERY video. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman2231 0 #8 June 8, 2006 I'm sorry, but if loosing a passenger out of a rig at 3k isn't "sensational" I hope I never jump with you! And I hope "not required" is not a prevention to a cure. If tightening the laterals could have saved her life, it's ok if it's "not required?" A H.A.N.S device was'nt required at Daytona either... but Earnhardt didn't have a passenger. If the girl in that vid had a 80 lb. butt... on that little stature,she would have been a gonner. I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #9 June 8, 2006 Nice piece of vid, but one thing I wondered about...at our DZ, the camera or other jumpers are not allowed to ever dock with the tandem master, only the passenger/student for safety reasons. Watching several guys go thru this with Jay Stokes this past week, he'd also expressed this "rule." So, what is right and not right regarding docking with passengers/tandem masters? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #10 June 9, 2006 QuoteIn fact the only things I saw in that video I didn't like were the cameraflyer playing with the drogue bridle, and the TI allowing the student to get a death grip on his right arm. LOL, I saw the same two things and went "HHHHMMMMMMM?" Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 June 9, 2006 What are you on about? It wouldn't have made a difference. Again, you need to understand how the tandem system works before you critique TI's who use it. What prompted your second response?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 June 9, 2006 Quotethe camera or other jumpers are not allowed to ever dock with the tandem master, only the passenger/student for safety reasons. Watching several guys go thru this with Jay Stokes this past week, he'd also expressed this "rule." So, what is right and not right regarding docking with passengers/tandem masters? I believe it's to insure the TM always has his hands free. However, for me, anyone I trust to swoop my tandems (500+ jumps, good flyer) I also trust to let go of me if I give them a shake or wave. I can deploy the main with either hand, but wouldn't want to do that with a swooper hanging on to me or the passenger, either one, it doesn't matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #13 June 9, 2006 QuoteA foot in the frame through deployment is like nails on a chalkboard to me but that's a personal issue. ---------------------------------------------------------- And to think, with him it was intentional He liked to get a foot or hand or both in EVERY video. I don't shoot video and even i could tell it was intentional. I thought it was freakin awesome. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #14 June 9, 2006 Quote And to think, with him it was intentional He liked to get a foot or hand or both in EVERY video. What can I say? I have sexy feet Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman2231 0 #15 June 9, 2006 I apollogise. Just seemed to make sense. To watch that and "speculate" if it could have made a difference...I saw all the things about "the video" that the vidiots see-hand , foot , clawing/ clinging...etc. With your experience, man I posted here because of what I SEE! Safety and training. Can you realy tell me that you won't tighten laterals a little more on your next paying customer?I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 June 9, 2006 To answer I'd have to say no. I don't run the laterals loose on my studens anyway, but for each body type they are a little different. Every student gets a custom fit to their harness, and just tightening the laterals will not prevent the "hole" or someone from falling out of it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #17 June 9, 2006 QuoteWhat can I say? I have sexy feet Whatever you say, Twinkle Toes!!!"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 June 9, 2006 ... If tightening the laterals could have saved her life ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you understood the process - of tightening tandem student harnesses - you would not have said that. First of all, loose or tight laterals make little difference in the size of the "hole" that a student's but can fall out of. Secondly, the tightness of the leg straps and lower lateral back straps were the primary variable that caused - the most recent fatality in Ohio. Thirdly, obese people are infinitely "compressible" so that no matter how hard you tighten straps, they are still loose. For example, when I used to jump with obese women, I used to "give it everything I had" to tighten their straps - just short of painfully tight - and still ended up with the laterals so loose that it felt that I was flying formation behind a tandem cargo bundle. She hung from the shoulder hooks at a 30 degree angle. After opening, there was a two foot gap between her shoulders and the harness. After the last fatality - in Ohio - Pitt Meadows decided to no longer haul female tandem students weighing more than 200 pounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman2231 0 #19 June 9, 2006 Thanks for the explanation. that makes alot of sense. I understand what you are saying.. I'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #20 June 9, 2006 That's not necessarily true Rob..... If you forget to do anything else but tighten the laterals down super tight, the student should be fine. If you forget to do anything else but tighten the leg straps super tight, the student should be fine. If you forget to do anything else but tighten the MLW super tight, the student should be fine. If you even forget to clip the shoulder attachments and you've done the latterals super tight, the student should be fine. No offense to anyone but its kind of hard to fuck these harnesses up. Hence the incredibly low rate of incidences with them. Don't be afraid to tighten any strap down on the harness. In fact I reccomend it. Remember Safety 1st, comfort a far distant 2nd. Aaron“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spud 0 #21 June 10, 2006 Totally agree with aironscott, safety first, comfort second. Climbing into an aircraft with a loose passenger is just plain lazy, even if the plane is waiting I make sure my client harness is secure.Simple! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildman2231 0 #22 June 17, 2006 My appologies again...after some more explanation, from friends here and elsewhere, and then rereading your 1st response...so sorry. But as someone new to the sport, I hope you could see my distress...I just kinda felt "blew off" because of my lack of knowledge... Blue skies always....*** Edited to say ...lvls 10 and 11 tomorrow! I'm sooo way greenI'm fine...crazy people don't know they're crazy...No,Really! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
