Brexit and Trumpism

[kallend 2,148]

Brexit and Trumpism:

Two symptoms of the same disease; an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,590]

Jonathan Pie: Tory voters, are you happy with your purchase?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae5t1CZFCU8

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

A country fully divided.

Exactly what an adversary would want.

Two countries, both close allies and both a large part of NATO, fully divided. With one under active control.

Now that would be a foreign adversary's wet dream.

Ukraine will be annexed relatively soon. Belarus might be after that.

[Phil1111 1,183]

kallend

Brexit and Trumpism:

Two symptoms of the same disease; an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists.

Voters who want a free meal and expect that such things exist.

Both the UK and America are learning that there is no free meal. Although the $trillion tax cut bill for rich Americans. Was certainly a free meal for them. At the expense of everyone else.

[DJL 235]

kallend

Brexit and Trumpism:

Two symptoms of the same disease; an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists.

What I don't get is how a VERY VERY VERY important policy decision is made because of a 51.9% favorable vote. From polling numbers that only represents roughly 36% of the population of the UK. You don't even need to discuss whether it's a good or bad idea because it's clearly only supported with a national emotion approximating "Meh...".

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[ryoder 1,590]

May's government survives no confidence vote
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46899466

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,595]

DJL

What I don't get is how a VERY VERY VERY important policy decision is made because of a 51.9% favorable vote. From polling numbers that only represents roughly 36% of the population of the UK. You don't even need to discuss whether it's a good or bad idea because it's clearly only supported with a national emotion approximating "Meh...".

Right, and yet the rhetoric from the PM, any time her process is criticised, is that everyone should support her in doing what the 'British People" have demanded. For reasons I can't fathom, even the opposition leader (of a traditionally Europhile party) has until now ruled out asking for a second referendum.

Why? When they voted did "the British People" know that the best possible deal that would result would be so bad it would bring a parliamentary defeat of historic proportions? That's a huge bit of new information that wasn't available when the 1st referendum happened.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,118]

Quote

Why? When they voted did "the British People" know that the best possible deal that would result would be so bad it would bring a parliamentary defeat of historic proportions?

Given that the #1 and #2 Google searches in Britain right AFTER the vote were "what is Brexit?" and "what is the EU?" - it is safe to say that many knew very little about what they were voting on.

[headoverheels 334]

billvon

Given that the #1 and #2 Google searches in Britain right AFTER the vote were "what is Brexit?" and "what is the EU?" - it is safe to say that many knew very little about what they were voting on.

Maybe those searches were from non-voters.

[kallend 2,148]

billvon

Quote

Why? When they voted did "the British People" know that the best possible deal that would result would be so bad it would bring a parliamentary defeat of historic proportions?

Given that the #1 and #2 Google searches in Britain right AFTER the vote were "what is Brexit?" and "what is the EU?" - it is safe to say that many knew very little about what they were voting on.

"an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists. "

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 235]

jakee

***What I don't get is how a VERY VERY VERY important policy decision is made because of a 51.9% favorable vote. From polling numbers that only represents roughly 36% of the population of the UK. You don't even need to discuss whether it's a good or bad idea because it's clearly only supported with a national emotion approximating "Meh...".

Right, and yet the rhetoric from the PM, any time her process is criticised, is that everyone should support her in doing what the 'British People" have demanded. For reasons I can't fathom, even the opposition leader (of a traditionally Europhile party) has until now ruled out asking for a second referendum.

Why? When they voted did "the British People" know that the best possible deal that would result would be so bad it would bring a parliamentary defeat of historic proportions? That's a huge bit of new information that wasn't available when the 1st referendum happened.

Hopefully the world will realize that this is a poor way to decide something of such importance. The 51% concept works on things like a two candidate election because you have to simply have to decide between two choices. For policy decisions the outcome really does need to represent not only a larger portion of the vote but a larger portion of the population. Just for the sake of what the numbers would look like 50% of the population would equate to a 70% vote for the UK in that election.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,118]

>Maybe those searches were from non-voters.

Perhaps, but unlikely. From the Guardian:

==========
On the morning of 23 June 2016, Rosamund Shaw still wasn’t sure if she wanted Britain to leave the European Union. . . . In the voting booth, Shaw finally made her choice: she voted leave. “To be quite frank, I did not believe it would happen,” she says. “I thought I’d put in a protest vote. The impact of my stupidity!”

As soon as Shaw saw the result the following morning, her heart sank. “I was in shock,” she remembers. “Even though I voted leave, I thought, ‘Oh no! This is terrible!’ "
===========

From the Independent:

===========
Electoral services workers have reported calls from people asking if they could change their decision after Friday’s result became clear, while some publicly admitted they intended to use a “protest vote” in the belief the UK was certain to remain in the European Union.

The anxiety – dubbed “Bregret” – emerged as the value of the pound tumbled and markets crashed, while somefelt betrayed by Nigel Farage’s admission that a Vote Leave poster pledging to spend millions of pounds supposedly given to the EU on the NHS was a “mistake”.

Mandy Suthi, a student who voted to leave, told ITV News she would tick the Remain box if she had a second chance and said her parents and siblings also regretted their choice.

“I would go back to the polling station and vote to stay, simply because this morning the reality is kicking in,” she said.

“I wish we had the opportunity to vote again,” she added, saying she was “very disappointed”.

Khembe Gibbons, a lifeguard from Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, also said she had regrets about her decision after Mr Farage said he could not guarantee NHS funding.

"We've left the EU, David Cameron's resigned, we're left with Boris, and Nigel has just basically given away that the NHS claim was a lie,” she wrote.

"I personally voted leave believing these lies, and I regret it more than anything, I feel genuinely robbed of my vote."
============

Sounds like a fair number of people wished they had done more research before the vote.

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Bill,

Quote

The impact of my stupidity!

There was a lot of that in 2016.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 1,183]

kallend

***

Quote

Why? When they voted did "the British People" know that the best possible deal that would result would be so bad it would bring a parliamentary defeat of historic proportions?

Given that the #1 and #2 Google searches in Britain right AFTER the vote were "what is Brexit?" and "what is the EU?" - it is safe to say that many knew very little about what they were voting on.

"an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists. "

IMO thats not quite accurate. Pro exit campaigners sold a bill of goods. That brexit was easy. That the benefits of EU integration could be achieved without costs. That the absolute freedoms of UK actions could exist simultaneously with the benefits of EU trade.

That is not the case. The EU has negotiated a position for which some UK politicians, won't accept. They insist that they can get a better brexit deal. For which there is the slight possibility of this happening. But the most likely case is that the whole exit idea is viewed by most as a bad deal.

So
A. Hold a new referendum with the May governments deal on the table.
B. Exit with no deal and accept the financial consequences.

Or.
A. Turn it over to the opposition geniuses that think the EU will give them something better.
B. Which likely goes with a new election.
The confidence vote today suggests this option is temporarily DOA.

Or. Postpone leaving till the next election and brexit is a important issue.

[billvon 3,118]

Unfortunately, the default option is C - fight about it, get nothing done and see a hard exit in two months.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Pro exit campaigners sold a bill of goods. That brexit was easy. That the benefits of EU integration could be achieved without costs. That the absolute freedoms of UK actions could exist simultaneously with the benefits of EU trade.

Which is a lie and was a lie at the time.

an inability of low information voters to recognize liars and con-artists." is very, very true.

[rushmc 23]

So your position is, that anybody that thinks Britain should leave the EU is...?

I am really looking forward to this reply.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Phil1111 1,183]

billvon

Unfortunately, the default option is C - fight about it, get nothing done and see a hard exit in two months.

UK Economy Could Take 10.7% Economic Hit with No-Deal Brexit: Gov’t Report
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/international/2018/11/28/510227.htm

Yet UK citizens have been borrowing like they fear not the abyss.

"As a corollary of this, the household sector has moved into a net financial deficit, borrowing more than it is saving for the first time since 1988.

Households clearly think Brexit will not hurt their finances and are spending as if the income squeeze of 2017 and 2018 was just a pinprick. The danger for the economy is that if households seek to save at normal levels once again — the 50 year average is around 9 per cent rate — spending will take a big knock as will the wider economy"...

Yet business fear said abyss:

"The latest data show a downbeat picture, with investment only 2 per cent higher than at the time of the Brexit vote and 0.2 per cent lower than a year ago.

Before the referendum, the BoE had expected business investment to have grown more than 13 per cent over the two-year period from 2016...."

Investors, like business dislike steep precipices:

"International investment in UK shares is best measured in dollar terms by the FTSE 250 index, which is made up by companies that collectively get most of their revenues from the UK. This has slid 0.3 per cent since the 2016 Brexit vote. (In sterling terms it has risen 12 per cent.)

In the meantime the stock markets of other developed economies have risen 26 per cent, showing that investors have devalued UK assets."
https://www.ft.com/content/cf51e840-7147-11e7-93ff-99f383b09ff9

So anti brexit politicans, UK business, UK govt. economists and investors are scared s**tless. But many citizens are still unconcerned.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

So your position is, that anybody that thinks Britain should leave the EU is...?

I am really looking forward to this reply.

He probably thinks that many who voted to leave the EU believed Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

***So your position is, that anybody that thinks Britain should leave the EU is...?

I am really looking forward to this reply.

He probably thinks that many who voted to leave the EU believed Mexico is going to pay for the wall.

Well that makes absolutely no sense. So I'm not surprised you posted that.

But it's just another example of the political elite class ignoring the people.

In the elite is a group home you must be a part of since you seem to agree that the people don't know anything.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Well that makes absolutely no sense. So I'm not surprised you posted that.

But it's just another example of the political elite class ignoring the people.

In the elite is a group home you must be a part of since you seem to agree that the people don't know anything.

English? Queen's or American.

[billvon 3,118]

>But it's just another example of the political elite class ignoring the people.

Good example - Trump claiming all the government workers who aren't being paid support him, and claiming that "he can relate."

>In the elite is a group home you must be a part of since you seem to agree
>that the people don't know anything.

Perhaps try that again in English?

[kallend 2,148]

billvon

>But it's just another example of the political elite class ignoring the people.

Good example - Trump claiming all the government workers who aren't being paid support him, and claiming that "he can relate."

>In the elite is a group home you must be a part of since you seem to agree
>that the people don't know anything.

Perhaps try that again in English?

Inability to read with comprehension and write intelligibly in their own native language would be a pretty good indicator of a "low information voter".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,590]

kallend

Inability to read with comprehension and write intelligibly in their own native language would be a pretty good indicator of a "low information voter".

That's not fair.
His Russian fluency might be flawless!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,590]

The debates in Parliament are getting very strange: