Afghanistan and Syria exits

[airdvr 210]

I say great move. We've been dicking around in Afghanistan for 18 years. Syria is just a dark abyss waiting for us to fall in.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[yoink 321]

Time will tell I guess.

If they just turn into another shithole country for the next several decades then that’s one thing. If they turn into a hotbed of terrorist training centers I think you’ll regret saying that.

And that's all without talking about the inherent WRONGNESS of just ditching people who are supposed to be your allies. 'America First' is becoming indistinguishable from 'fuck everyone else'.

[ryoder 1,590]

The story behind the Syria exit: https://apnews.com/ec2ed217357048ff998225a31534df12

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,121]

Airdvr, 2008: "We're at war with [Al Qaeda]. We should go anywhere they are provided the country harboring them isn't doing anything about it (Syria, Iran, Pakistan.)"

So now we are at war with ISIS. But now we should leave them alone in Syria, because Trump said so.

Then, in 2013, you mocked Obama for "caving" on Syria and not taking action.

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Shame really. I'm sure the people breathing their last will understand."

A fine example of moral relativity. Fortunately Trump tweets everything he is thinking, so you can rapidly readjust your moral compass.

[Phil1111 1,186]

ryoder

The story behind the Syria exit: https://apnews.com/ec2ed217357048ff998225a31534df12

Turkey’s Vote Makes Erdogan Effectively a Dictator
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/turkeys-vote-makes-erdogan-effectively-a-dictator
April 17, 2017

"He’d served time in prison, in 1999—for reading a poem that seemed to celebrate militant Islam...

On Sunday, Erdogan declared himself the winner of a nationwide referendum that all but brings Turkish democracy to an end. The vast new powers granted to Erdogan wide control over the judiciary, broad powers to make law by decree, the abolition of the office of the Prime Minister and of Turkey’s parliamentary system—effectively make him a dictator....

For much of the past year, Erdogan ’s government has been working to stamp out what remained of the democratic opposition to his rule. Since July, some forty thousand people have been detained, including a hundred and fifty journalists. A hundred thousand government employees have been fired, and a hundred and seventy-nine television stations, newspapers, and other media outlets have been closed. Many opposition leaders are in jail. "

[billvon 3,121]

"On Sunday, Erdogan declared himself the winner of a nationwide referendum that all but brings Turkish democracy to an end. The vast new powers granted to Erdogan wide control over the judiciary, broad powers to make law by decree, the abolition of the office of the Prime Minister and of Turkey’s parliamentary system—effectively make him a dictator."

No wonder Trump wants to be just like him.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

ryoder

The story behind the Syria exit: https://apnews.com/ec2ed217357048ff998225a31534df12

Absolutely unbelievable if even only 50% of that story is true.

[Phil1111 1,186]

billvon

"On Sunday, Erdogan declared himself the winner of a nationwide referendum that all but brings Turkish democracy to an end. The vast new powers granted to Erdogan wide control over the judiciary, broad powers to make law by decree, the abolition of the office of the Prime Minister and of Turkey’s parliamentary system—effectively make him a dictator."

No wonder Trump wants to be just like him.

Or if republicans found out that Obama was taking advice from a convicted Islamist terrorist: ""He’d served time in prison, in 1999—for reading a poem that seemed to celebrate militant Islam" and letting such a person's advice determine international policy. Handing hard fought battlefield successes over to Russia. As a happy x-mas Putin gift.

The Kremlin will be toasting success this holiday season. Vodka and Beluga caviar for everyone.

[ryoder 1,590]

CNN Analysis: America's unprecedented 72 hours that could reshape the world
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/politics/trump-syria-afghanistan-us-military/index.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,599]

airdvr

I say great move. We've been dicking around in Afghanistan for 18 years. Syria is just a dark abyss waiting for us to fall in.

But Assad has, and has used, WMD. Where is your crystal ball that says he will never be de then against us?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[airdvr 210]

billvon

Airdvr, 2008: "We're at war with [Al Qaeda]. We should go anywhere they are provided the country harboring them isn't doing anything about it (Syria, Iran, Pakistan.)"

So now we are at war with ISIS. But now we should leave them alone in Syria, because Trump said so.

Then, in 2013, you mocked Obama for "caving" on Syria and not taking action.

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Shame really. I'm sure the people breathing their last will understand."

A fine example of moral relativity. Fortunately Trump tweets everything he is thinking, so you can rapidly readjust your moral compass.

10 years later many things have changed. Only readjustment I need is to be able to say "enough". And absolutely I mocked Barry. He was stupid enough to draw a line in the sand and then back down. Sometimes when you do that all you end up with is a sandy stick.

If you want to continue to fight ISIS that's fine. I don't think there's much left to go after. Asking the military if we should continue is like your boss asking you if your job should be eliminated.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Phil1111 1,186]

jakee

***I say great move. We've been dicking around in Afghanistan for 18 years. Syria is just a dark abyss waiting for us to fall in.

But Assad has, and has used, WMD. Where is your crystal ball that says he will never be de then against us?

Iran sends Hezbollah GPS parts to turn rockets into precision missiles — report

Or make a deal with Iran to supply WMD to put atop Iranian built missiles that they supply to Hezbollah.To attack Israel.

Oh but wait! That would fulfill Ron's dream of Armageddon. Starting in the Middle East. Spreading war thorough the world.

"Iran has delivered advanced GPS components to Hezbollah which will allow the terrorist group to make previously unguided rockets into precision guided-missiles, thus increasing the threat to Israel, Fox News reported Friday.

According to the media outlet, American and western intelligence services believe Iran has been increasing its shipments to Hezbollah, with one flight arriving in Beirut as recently as three days ago with the parts to convert weaponry at Iranian factories in Lebanon. ..

“The Iranians are building a formidable military presence in Syria with ballistic missiles, precise ballistic missiles, UAV, air defense. Israel is not going to allow Iran to duplicate Hezbollah in Syria,” Yadlin said...

Russia delivered the advanced S-300 missile defense system to Syria..

Hezbollah is believed to have an arsenal of between 100,000 and 150,000 rockets and missiles,"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-sends-hezbollah-gps-parts-to-turn-rockets-into-precision-missiles-report/

Armageddon? Bring It On: The Evangelical Force Behind Trump's Jerusalem Speech
The U.S. evangelical community is in raptures over Trump's decision to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, believing it moves the world closer to Armageddon
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-armageddon-bring-it-on-the-evangelical-force-behind-trump-s-jerusalem-speech-1.5628081

[DJL 235]

It's very likely that this will lead to unrestricted warfare against the Kurds now that they're stuck between Turkey and a Russian backed Assad. We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Phil1111 1,186]

airdvr

***Airdvr, 2008: "We're at war with [Al Qaeda]. We should go anywhere they are provided the country harboring them isn't doing anything about it (Syria, Iran, Pakistan.)"

So now we are at war with ISIS. But now we should leave them alone in Syria, because Trump said so.

Then, in 2013, you mocked Obama for "caving" on Syria and not taking action.

"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Shame really. I'm sure the people breathing their last will understand."

A fine example of moral relativity. Fortunately Trump tweets everything he is thinking, so you can rapidly readjust your moral compass.

10 years later many things have changed. Only readjustment I need is to be able to say "enough". And absolutely I mocked Barry. He was stupid enough to draw a line in the sand and then back down. Sometimes when you do that all you end up with is a sandy stick.

If you want to continue to fight ISIS that's fine. I don't think there's much left to go after. Asking the military if we should continue is like your boss asking you if your job should be eliminated.

"Trump said "As promised, I directed the Department of Defense to develop a plan to demolish and destroy ISIS, a network of lawless savages that have slaughtered Muslims and Christians and men, and women and children of all faiths and all beliefs. We will work with our allies, including our friends and allies in the Muslim world, to extinguish this vile enemy from our planet."
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1375/develop-plan-defeat-isis-30-days/

"According to a U.S. military estimate released last summer, up to 30,000 ISIS fighters remain across Syria and Iraq."
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/20/trumps-sudden-syria-pullout-will-embolden-isis-and-iran-allies-warn.html

[billvon 3,121]

>We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"Make America Great Again." Nothing in there about our allies!

[kallend 2,156]

Didn’t he have a plan to defeat ISIS in one week?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[yoink 321]

Mission accomplished. ISIS is beaten. We won.



RUN AWAY!!!!
/Monty Python

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

kallend

Didn’t he have a plan to defeat ISIS in one week?

Well, yeah.

He knew Daesh 'better than anyone'.

But the actual promise was that the generals (who didn't know them as well as he did) would have 30 days to develop a plan to defeat them.

I didn't think 'run away' was a plan to defeat them.
It's just his typical plan for everything when it doesn't go the way he wants.

When the going gets tough, Trump quits.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 1,186]

The Kurdish fight is humanity’s fight

"Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is a tyrannical brute, who has made a frequent habit of trampling on the human rights of his own people, with total impunity. Since the failed coup of July 2016, Erdogan continues to conduct arbitrary arrests and purges of academicians, politicians and journalists. Anyone slightly threatening to him is held in prison on trumped-up charges....

This weekend, Erdogan gave a heated speech in Kilis, which is on the Turkish-Syrian border, vowing to drive out the Syrian Kurds from their ancestral homeland, and threatening to go into the US-backed Kurdish region east of the Euphrates, starting with the Kurdish-held town of Manbij, to which the crowd passionately chanted, “Hit. Hit. Let it reverberate and let Trump hear.”...

Syria’s Kurds have done much of our own dirty work while they courageously fought to eradicate Islamic State (ISIS). They have never asked anyone else to shed a drop of blood in their defense. The region of Afrin has been a safe haven for approximately 400,000 internally displaced Syrians, who are Kurds, Sunni Arabs, Assyrians, Yazidis and others.

In the past week Turkey has been trying to create a stranglehold on the Kurdish region of Afrin in northwestern Syria. Afrin is in a particularly difficult place because it is an isolated Kurdish enclave, separate from where the bulk of US-backed Kurdish forces are.

Russia controls everything west of the Euphrates River, and Russia, which controls the airspace, has given Erdogan the green light to attack Afrin from the air. As I write this, Turkish tanks are penetrating the region, and there are at least 100 Kurds murdered.

WHEN I look at the Kurds, I see the history of the Jewish people before the State of Israel. I see the Kurdish people of Afrin as the Jews of Eastern Europe, or as the first settlers in pre-state Israel, who also valiantly defended their land....

No one spoke up for my Aunt Sarah when the Nazis invaded Poland. And that is why I must speak out today while Erdogan is launching this ruthless offensive on the Kurdish region of Afrin. Just as the West harbors a black chapter in our history for looking away from the cries of my aunt, our history will forever be blackened if we now choose to look away from the cries of the Kurds in Afrin. The Kurdish fight is a fight to preserve our humanity.

The author is founder and president of the Endowment for Middle East Truth, EMET, a pro-Israel and pro-American think tank and policy shop in Washington, DC. She and her group are currently on Capitol Hill educating members of Congress on the need to support the Kurds in Afrin."
https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-Kurdish-fight-is-humanitys-fight-540261

Nobody in the middle east understands it and America's interests better than Israel. Erdogan wants to drive the Kurds from Syria and Iraq. To use them as scapegoats for his failing economic policies. trump has handed them over to him. To be slaughtered.

[airdvr 210]

billvon

>We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"Make America Great Again." Nothing in there about our allies!

You and the usual cast of characters were totally against being there. Now all of a sudden you have a problem with leaving. Who was POTUS when this started?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

airdvr

***>We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"Make America Great Again." Nothing in there about our allies!

You and the usual cast of characters were totally against being there. Now all of a sudden you have a problem with leaving. Who was POTUS when this started?

GWB.

The genesis of Daesh was the remnants of the Baath party.

Do you remember Rumsfeld's "Dead Enders"? They sure have come a long way down that 'dead end' road.

And there's a difference between going there to begin with and having a presence that has an effect, then pulling out.

Turkey, the only Islamic democracy, is likely transforming into a dictatorship.
The primary influence that kept them 'free' was the US.

Of course, Trump has shown his love for dictators. So the Turks are kinda fucked.

As are the Kurds.

This is going to have an effect on the attitude of the world towards the US for a long, long time.
Remember the mid-70s?
After Viet Nam, the US was seen as a 'paper tiger', with lots of good reasons for it. Nobody would trust us, for fear we would start to help them, then leave them in the lurch when it got tough.

The USSR spread a lot of power during that time. SE Asia, Africa, South & Central America.
While the 'Soviet Union' is gone, Russia isn't much different. China is a much bigger player these days, too.

Trump is doing a lot to destroy the reputation of the US. His Russian masters must be very happy.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[yoink 321]

airdvr

***>We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"Make America Great Again." Nothing in there about our allies!

You and the usual cast of characters were totally against being there. Now all of a sudden you have a problem with leaving.

It’s called accepting responsibility for our actions. Maybe your guys should try it.

We shouldn’t have gone in the first place, but now that we did the responsible thing is to see it through to a successful end, not just run away like a coward and claim victory while hiding behind the bed.

[airdvr 210]

yoink

******>We've essentially left our best ally against ISIS unprotected on the battlefield.

"Make America Great Again." Nothing in there about our allies!

You and the usual cast of characters were totally against being there. Now all of a sudden you have a problem with leaving.

It’s called accepting responsibility for our actions. Maybe your guys should try it.

We shouldn’t have gone in the first place, but now that we did the responsible thing is to see it through to a successful end, not just run away like a coward and claim victory while hiding behind the bed.

We've spent 18 years in Afghanistan. If we haven't accomplished our goal we never will. How long should we spend in Syria before we realize the same thing?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

airdvr

We've spent 18 years in Afghanistan. If we haven't accomplished our goal we never will. How long should we spend in Syria before we realize the same thing?

Well, one of the reasons we didn't (and likely won't) accomplish our goals in Afghanistan is/was because after a year and a half there, we basically abandoned it to go chase phantom WMDs in Iraq.

One of the reasons Daesh has caused so much trouble is because we went chasing phantom WMDs in Iraq, and then took all those in power there (with a lot of experience in exercising it) and just dumped them on an unstable region.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,599]

airdvr

We've spent 18 years in Afghanistan. If we haven't accomplished our goal we never will. How long should we spend in Syria before we realize the same thing?

We were never closer to achieving a positive outcome in Afghanistan than we were before we got bored and invaded Iraq instead. What else did we get from Iraq? ISIS. Why are we in Syria at all? Oh yeah, ISIS again.

How long is it going to be until you realise the folly of the foreign policy objectives you still support?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?