By their fruits

[motionscribe 0]

JoeWeber

************
how do you reconcile your view of Christianity with the way the Protestants and Catholics loved each other in Northern Ireland

I don't, but were their actions religious in nature, or were they more politically motivated?

Come on, Max. Answering a question with a question-and an irrelevant one at that-is mas no bueno.

What it shows, sadly, is that the core advantage Christians use to sell religion is false. After all, shouldn't their religious sensibilities and morality have kept them from committing political murders?

Point of clarification: you are confusing me with motionscribe. I already answered your question JoeWeber.

My apologies.

Great, so now that you guys have that all sorted out, I too answered your question as it was already pointed out.

JoeWeber

the core advantage Christians use to sell religion is false.

Is that "core advantage" a fact, or just your opinion?

JoeWeber

After all, shouldn't their religious sensibilities and morality have kept them from committing political murders?

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know their religious sensibilities and commitment to "morality." Do you also have a problem with Christians joining the military and/or going to war? Also, whoever said that christianity automatically prevents someone from doing something whether right or wrong, whether justified or not?

None of this really matters anyway. Practically all 1+ billion christian haven't killed anyone, nor do they want to. Same goes for the 1+ billion Muslims along with all the other people of various faiths.

Most religious people keep to themselves and help those within their own communities or become missionaries and help people worldwide.

There is a very small fraction of humans that actually want to kill anyone, and even a smaller fraction of those that actually can, regardless of their motivation/justification.

Kind of sad that that has to be pointed to you. . .

[jakee 1,594]

Quote

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know their religious sensibilities and commitment to "morality." Do you also have a problem with Christians joining the military and/or going to war?

i struggle to see how anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus and truly believes in the soul can reconcile it with joining the military and going to war.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,111]

Quote

i struggle to see how anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus and truly believes in the soul can reconcile it with joining the military and going to war.

I can see that. Lots of war in the Bible, and plenty of pseudo-aggressive New Testament material to give them cover (i.e. "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.")

[gowlerk 2,274]

My favourite Chistians are Mennonites. They are pacifists. It is my feeling that they best represent the teachings of Christ as I understand them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

Quote

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know their religious sensibilities and commitment to "morality." Do you also have a problem with Christians joining the military and/or going to war?

i struggle to see how anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus and truly believes in the soul can reconcile it with joining the military and going to war.

Using wolfriverjoes's logic, it's an evolutionary benefit influenced by the mass slaughter of early Christians. Only those that fought survived. . .

[jakee 1,594]

motionscribe

***

Quote

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know their religious sensibilities and commitment to "morality." Do you also have a problem with Christians joining the military and/or going to war?

i struggle to see how anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus and truly believes in the soul can reconcile it with joining the military and going to war.

Using wolfriverjoes's logic, it's an evolutionary benefit influenced by the mass slaughter of early Christians. Only those that fought survived. . .

And you disagree with him, so what do you think?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,111]

By their fruits shall you know them.
=================================
Man shouts 'Heil Hitler, Heil Trump,' does Nazi salute during Baltimore performance of 'Fiddler on the Roof'

Christina Tkacik, Sarah Meehan and Lillian Reed
The Baltimore Sun

A man shouting a pro-Nazi and pro-Trump salute during a performance of “Fiddler on the Roof” in Baltimore has reignited discussions of anti-Semitism amid increases in hate crimes in Maryland and nationwide.

Audience member Rich Scherr said the outburst, during intermission at the Hippodrome Theatre on Wednesday, prompted fears that it was the beginning of a shooting. The man, who had been seated in the balcony, began shouting “Heil Hitler, Heil Trump.” Immediately after that, “People started running,” Scherr said. “I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear a gunshot. I thought, ‘Here we go.’”

Samit Verma was seated in the balcony when he heard shouting and saw a man holding his hand straight up in a Nazi salute, he said in an email Thursday. Ushers rushed over to the man while audience members quickly made their way out of the theater and into the hall, Verma said.

“The people around me appeared to be quite shaken by the incident,” Verma said in the email. “There were some people in tears.”
==================================

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

******

Quote

Unlike you, I don't pretend to know their religious sensibilities and commitment to "morality." Do you also have a problem with Christians joining the military and/or going to war?

i struggle to see how anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus and truly believes in the soul can reconcile it with joining the military and going to war.

Using wolfriverjoes's logic, it's an evolutionary benefit influenced by the mass slaughter of early Christians. Only those that fought survived. . .

And you disagree with him, so what do you think?

Like I said, I don't pretend to know. I think scripture can be used to justify or condemn practically anything. I see it as a mirror to expose who we really are. We see what want to see, whether a believer or not. Our interpretations of it are temporal and influenced by our understanding of preceding and subsequent verses along with external influences and thus vary widely, changing with time.

I don't want to seem disingenuous, but I'd need to understand why you struggle, if in fact you really struggle at all. What do you think it means to be a true follower of Jesus, and why is having a soul significant to you as it pertains to this discussion?

Do you mean that you struggle with how they can kill a possible non-believer without attempting to convert them?

Also, it should be noted that there is a difference between being deliberately bloodthirsty and unintentionally finding yourself in a precarious situation.

[jakee 1,594]

Quote

Like I said, I don't pretend to know.

You said you don't pretend to know what other people think. (Right before telling me what someone else thinks).

I was asking what you think. i got the impression that you were a Christian.

Quote

I think scripture can be used to justify or condemn practically anything. I see it as a mirror to expose who we really are. We see what want to see, whether a believer or not. Our interpretations of it are temporal and influenced by our understanding of preceding and subsequent verses along with external influences and thus vary widely, changing with time.

So what's the point?

Quote

What do you think it means to be a true follower of Jesus, and why is having a soul significant to you as it pertains to this discussion?

Because if someone truly believes in a soul, and heaven, and that eternal life is more important than this existence, then it follows that obeying biblical commands not to kill people is more important than protecting anyone or any country in this reality. Why would you jeopardise your immortal soul to save a fallen colleague in a fallen world?

Quote

Also, it should be noted that there is a difference between being deliberately bloodthirsty and unintentionally finding yourself in a precarious situation.

No-one told me about the bit where Jesus said "Turn the other cheek, unless you're in a uniform."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

Quote

Like I said, I don't pretend to know.

You said you don't pretend to know what other people think.

Not with regard to their perception of Christianity.

jakee

(Right before telling me what someone else thinks).

He made his thoughts quite clear.

jakee

I was asking what you think.

and I told you.

jakee

Quote

I think scripture can be used to justify or condemn practically anything. I see it as a mirror to expose who we really are. We see what want to see, whether a believer or not. Our interpretations of it are temporal and influenced by our understanding of preceding and subsequent verses along with external influences and thus vary widely, changing with time.

So what's the point?

It's a process, so I don't see the point in judging another's spiritual condition.

I've learned it's not wise to say how can they do this or how can they do that - you just might find out. . .

jakee

Why would you jeopardise your immortal soul?

Wouldn't the only souls in jeopardy be the one's that aren't already saved?

jakee

No-one told me about the bit where Jesus said "Turn the other cheek, unless you're in a uniform."

There are certainly consequences for your actions, but losing your soul isn't one of them.

[jakee 1,594]

Quote

and I told you.

Then how come everything you said after this is stuff you hadn't said yet?

Quote

It's a process, so I don't see the point in judging another's spiritual condition.

How is it a process if there isn't even anything to tell you what the process is?

Quote

I've learned it's not wise to say how can they do this or how can they do that - you just might find out. . .

Huh? If I didn't want to find out I wouldn't be asking the question. What could possibly be bad about finding out?

Quote

Wouldn't the only souls in jeopardy be the one's that aren't already saved?

How do you know there's any such thing as a saved soul?

Quote

There are certainly consequences for your actions, but losing your soul isn't one of them.

So now you do know what scripture really says? Cool, could you go back and re-answer the earlier questions?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Rick 67]

gowlerk

My favourite Chistians are Mennonites. They are pacifists. It is my feeling that they best represent the teachings of Christ as I understand them.

the Quakers also are pacifists. A bunch of them moved to Costa Rica to avoid the draft during the Korean conflict.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[motionscribe 0]

jakee

How is it a process if there isn't even anything to tell you what the process is?

It is what it is. One will most likely find new insight and modify their beliefs as they read beyond john 3:16 (or wherever else they started) and apply biblical principles to their life.

jakee

Quote

I've learned it's not wise to say how can they do this or how can they do that - you just might find out. . .

Huh? If I didn't want to find out I wouldn't be asking the question. What could possibly be bad about finding out?

I'm talking in general about how some may pompously judge the way others act in precarious situations. Perhaps one day they might find themselves in a similar situation, and then it'll hit them like a ton of bricks - "oh, that's what it's like."

What it's like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA1nGPM9yHA

jakee

Quote

Wouldn't the only souls in jeopardy be the one's that aren't already saved?

How do you know there's any such thing as a saved soul?

I don't. What prompted you to bring up the soul in the first?

jakee

Quote

There are certainly consequences for your actions, but losing your soul isn't one of them.

So now you do know what scripture really says? Cool, could you go back and re-answer the earlier questions?

That is my interpretation. You obviously had your own. Others have their own. Some Christians believe that saved souls can get lost again, I don't.

[jakee 1,594]

motionscribe

***How is it a process if there isn't even anything to tell you what the process is?

It is what it is. One will most likely find new insight and modify their beliefs as they read beyond john 3:16 (or wherever else they started) and apply biblical principles to their life.
Although you just said those biblical principles could be anything, and may well have nothing whatsoever to do with what god may or may not want people to do?

Quote

I'm talking in general about how some may pompously judge the way others act in precarious situations. Perhaps one day they might find themselves in a similar situation, and then it'll hit them like a ton of bricks - "oh, that's what it's like."

I might end up being a christian in the army? I think both those ships have sailed, to be honest.

Quote

I don't. What prompted you to bring up the soul in the first?

Because it would by definition be infinitely more important than a temporal existence. By extension, it then wouldn't be worth contravening any biblical instructions on how to behave (personally I thought the 'don't kill people' thing was pretty clear, but obviously you disagree) even if you, you family or your country are in danger.

Quote

That is my interpretation. You obviously had your own. Others have their own. Some Christians believe that saved souls can get lost again, I don't.

so god doesn't care what people do, and you could be a soldier, a social worker or a serial killer and it makes no difference?

Cool, that makes sense. It seems morally perverse, but it is consistent and I appreciate that.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

billvon

By their fruits shall you know them.
=================================
Man shouts 'Heil Hitler, Heil Trump,' does Nazi salute during Baltimore performance of 'Fiddler on the Roof'

Christina Tkacik, Sarah Meehan and Lillian Reed
The Baltimore Sun

A man shouting a pro-Nazi and pro-Trump salute during a performance of “Fiddler on the Roof” in Baltimore has reignited discussions of anti-Semitism amid increases in hate crimes in Maryland and nationwide.

Audience member Rich Scherr said the outburst, during intermission at the Hippodrome Theatre on Wednesday, prompted fears that it was the beginning of a shooting. The man, who had been seated in the balcony, began shouting “Heil Hitler, Heil Trump.” Immediately after that, “People started running,” Scherr said. “I’ll be honest, I was waiting to hear a gunshot. I thought, ‘Here we go.’”

Samit Verma was seated in the balcony when he heard shouting and saw a man holding his hand straight up in a Nazi salute, he said in an email Thursday. Ushers rushed over to the man while audience members quickly made their way out of the theater and into the hall, Verma said.

“The people around me appeared to be quite shaken by the incident,” Verma said in the email. “There were some people in tears.”
==================================

You should really do a little research before you embarrass yourself

Quote

A man shouting “Heil Hitler, Heil Trump” during a performance of “Fiddler on the Roof” in Baltimore smelled of alcohol and told police he was motivated by his hatred of President Donald Trump.

Bolding mine

[url]https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-hippodrome-20181114-story.html[url]

And Pro Trump salute????? Really Bill????

He admits hating Trump!!! You really think it was pro Trump what he did?


The spin room is on fire today

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DJL 235]

RonD1120

Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

And that's the bullshit of religion, that Ted Bundy said he was sorry just before he was executed and that makes it OK.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[jakee 1,594]

RonD1120

Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

If you agree with motionscribe that christianity has no connection with morality that's cool.

Seems very strange to me, but at least it's a consistent point of view.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

DJL

***Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

And that's the bullshit of religion, that Ted Bundy said he was sorry just before he was executed and that makes it OK.

Being sorry does not get you saved. Confessing your sin, surrendering to Christ and asking for His forgiveness is what gets you saved. In God's view, all sin is equal. It is a decision of the heart, not the mind. You have to surrender your will, your ego. It is called by some as dying unto Christ.

Religion has very little if anything to do with it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JerryBaumchen 1,466]

Hi Ron,

Quote

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end.

I was a teenager in a bible study group when the pastor told us this. He & I discussed it in depth and that is when I gave up on all forms of religion.

Jerry Baumchen

[theplummeter 15]

Can Bundy sit next to Dauhmer and Hitler in heaven while people who grow up elsewhere living near perfect lives burn in hell for eternity?

Is that His perfect mercy or His perfect Justice?

[AtrusBatleth 0]

DJL

***Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

And that's the bullshit of religion, that Ted Bundy said he was sorry just before he was executed and that makes it OK.

No one is suggesting such a confession "makes it OK." He was still executed. Any decent pastor/priest who councils someone that makes a similar confession will then tell them they need to turn themselves in to the police. Being forgiven by God does not mean there are not still earthly consequences. As for God forgiving even ones as "bad" as Bundy or Dahmer (if their confession was genuine), that is precisely what Jesus says in Matthew 20. It is because of his love for us, that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:7-8).

Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

[jakee 1,594]

AtrusBatleth

No one is suggesting such a confession "makes it OK."

That's exactly what they're suggesting, that in the eyes of god it's ok.

Quote

He was still executed.

So what?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 235]

AtrusBatleth

******Dr James Dobson interviewed Ted Bundy in prison. He stated that Bundy confessed his sins, accepted Christ, and was saved prior to his execution.

It is not so much what you did but where you are at the end. The big unknown for most is when is the end.

And that's the bullshit of religion, that Ted Bundy said he was sorry just before he was executed and that makes it OK.

No one is suggesting such a confession "makes it OK." He was still executed. Any decent pastor/priest who councils someone that makes a similar confession will then tell them they need to turn themselves in to the police. Being forgiven by God does not mean there are not still earthly consequences. As for God forgiving even ones as "bad" as Bundy or Dahmer (if their confession was genuine), that is precisely what Jesus says in Matthew 20. It is because of his love for us, that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:7-8).

It's a place in heaven that I'm specifically talking about and Bundy didn't first hear of God and Christ after he was sitting on death row. Continuing with what someone said above, I have a hard time with the idea of God who is so self centered that a person who goes through their life behaving in the image of morality goes to hell because they didn't click the metaphorical like button on God.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[normiss 892]

Which is why I stopped reading at the third word.