Gerrymandering

[kallend 2,175]

Today the SCOTUS hears arguments in a Maryland case, brought by Republicans. They have yet to rule on the Wisconsin case brought by Democrats.

Maybe, just maybe, the fact that both sides feel aggrieved when the other side does it will prompt the justices to do something about it instead of punting.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

kallend

Today the SCOTUS hears arguments in a Maryland case, brought by Republicans. They have yet to rule on the Wisconsin case brought by Democrats.

Maybe, just maybe, the fact that both sides feel aggrieved when the other side does it will prompt the justices to do something about it instead of punting.

It's interesting that they would deliberate the two cases concurrently.

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[PhreeZone 20]

I'm awaiting the cases that will be brought from Maine over their changes to their elections. Maine via referendum has enacted ranked voting for federal positions, they attempted to enact it also for state elections but the elected officials in office figured a way out to have those changes declared unconstitutional at the state level so it only works for the federal positions in this upcoming election. The change to the ranked voting is being fought by the currently elected officials since it looks like it will really change the structure of power in the state and only the more moderate candidates that are able to build a larger collection of votes from across multiple parties will be able to win. Just having a D or R beside your name will not win a position anymore and this is going to make it so that the parties lose a lot of the control they have so they are fighting it at every level but via direct vote the voters seem intent on enabling this.

At the state level the state house republicans have defunded all actions to update their voting machines to reflect the changes needed to enable this so if it passes again in June it might be back to paper ballots for everything in Maine. The issue with paper ballots is the state has also pulled all funding to create, print and pay for the counting and security for paper voting. The democrats in the senate have pulled all funding to have the rules updated and the legal clarification needed for how odd situations need to be dealt with such as a ballot that does not have a #1 choice but starts at #2.

The establishment from both parties has a lot at stake and is fighting to keep the status quo in terms of how they get elected - look for other states to start similar movements if Maine enables this and look for a lot of lawsuits to prevent it from happening.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jcd11235 0]

The country needs ranked voting, or a similar improvement that provides third-party candidates a meaningful chance of being elected.

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[JerryBaumchen 1,471]

Hi jcd,

Quote

or a similar improvement

Lets just get rid of all political parties; everyone justs runs as the person that they are & what they stand for.

Jerry Baumchen

[jcd11235 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi jcd,

Quote

or a similar improvement

Lets just get rid of all political parties; everyone justs runs as the person that they are & what they stand for.

Jerry Baumchen

I don't mind the parties so much. I just wish the system didn't effectively limit us to two parties. Ranked voting, instant runoff voting, etc. fixes that.

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[AlanS 1]

JerryBaumchen

Hi jcd,

Quote

or a similar improvement

Lets just get rid of all political parties; everyone justs runs as the person that they are & what they stand for.

Jerry Baumchen

Agree on all counts. In addition I think we need to drastically improve our Presidential primary system. Ranked voting so, similarly centrist candidates don't dilute the voting leaving an extreme candidate with 20% of primary votes the winner.

[AlanS 1]

jcd11235

I don't mind the parties so much. I just wish the system didn't effectively limit us to two parties. Ranked voting, instant runoff voting, etc. fixes that.

Parties increase (cause) the tribalism of our politics. Group-think takes over and instead of considering issues on their merits. People vote the party-line to prove loyalty to their party (tribal) affiliation.

In that environment, it is impossible to acknowledge that "the other side", might have some legitimate concerns than should be considered.

[jcd11235 0]

AlanS

Parties increase (cause) the tribalism of our politics. Group-think takes over and instead of considering issues on their merits.

That's arguably true when limited to two parties, as we currently are, but it's not true when additional parties are allowed to play.

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[wmw999 2,600]

Some people are kinda tribal by nature. There are more than two soccer teams, and yet people associate (sometimes violently) with them. That's a party's job, is to build a group of like-minded people on some issues, so that they can trust the group, rather than having to evaluate each candidate individually.

If you think voter turnout is low now, it'll be really low if there are no parties, and people have to read really detailed statements. The guy with the shortest statement will win.

Not that I think the parties are necessarily good -- I voted in this last election specifically to help legitimize an alternate party. In things like this, change is probably good, because it makes people think. Of course, some people hate that

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,609]

Quote

At the state level the state house republicans have defunded all actions to update their voting machines to reflect the changes needed to enable this so if it passes again in June it might be back to paper ballots for everything in Maine. The issue with paper ballots is the state has also pulled all funding to create, print and pay for the counting and security for paper voting. The democrats in the senate have pulled all funding to have the rules updated and the legal clarification needed for how odd situations need to be dealt with such as a ballot that does not have a #1 choice but starts at #2.

So what happens in a situation like this when they refuse to fund something they have to do? Does someone with standing need to get a court order for the bailiffs to go into the State House and start selling off the furniture until they find the cash or what?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,131]

> Does someone with standing need to get a court order for the bailiffs to go into the State
>House and start selling off the furniture until they find the cash or what?

Perhaps they have the sort of bailiffs who could go help the good senators find their checkbooks.

[PhreeZone 20]

Word is they will have to go to court to then put out a court order that specifics that a plan has to be created and passed within a defined period to pay for it. Issue is that they courts can not look at the case until after the June referendum is voted on. If it passes then the case has to be filed and accepted. It might be 90-120 days before the courts work the case unless an emergency order is filed. At that point both sides have figure out the needed funds and who will do all the work and see if it can be completed before the November elections. The parties in control right now are hoping that the work can not be done by November and then it gets them 2 more years to figure out and implement the solution (and stay in their current seats).

Whats interesting on this is that the first election the plans are to basically say that anyone that meets the requirements can get listed - that means you might see 4 R's and 2 D's on the ballot and you have to rank vote them. The parties are trying to limit it to only one per party since having multiple people on the ballot basically eliminates the value of the primaries. Past that they are then wanting the primaries to be ranked voting also.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jcd11235 0]

wmw999

Some people are kinda tribal by nature. There are more than two soccer teams, and yet people associate (sometimes violently) with them.

To be fair, soccer teams compete with only two teams on the playing field at a time. When there is a tournament, people frequently root for one of the teams playing at the time, even if neither is theirs. Likewise, many will root for more than one team to advance, even if they know they might be rooting against them later (if all goes well!). And if their team gets knocked out early, many will adopt a surviving team.

If we had a few meaningful parties, their differences wouldn't be so stark, so it would be much more likely that people would consider a great candidate from a similar party to the average candidate their own party nominated.

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