School shooting solutions

[nolhtairt 0]

GeorgiaDon

************I do support the 2nd Amendment, but there has to be restrictions on who can have what and those restrictions have to be enforced. The enforcement is what we're having issues with now.

So you agree with me that there are already laws restricting gun ownership and penalties for misuse which need enforcement and that simply creating more restriction on the rest of us will not prevent another mass shooting tragedy?Would you agree to a law that says that anyone can purchase an AR-15 or other "assault" weapon, but in exchange law enforcement can monitor all your communications, you have to provide the government with all passwords and agree to un-encrypt anything they ask for, and you agree to share your medical history? Also, you will have to agree to have the government regulate your use of "violent" video games, movies, and music. After all, if the argument is that the solution to gun violence is to identify people likely to misuse firearms (but not to restrict access to firearms in any way) then surely we need to provide law enforcement with tools with which to do that?

Don

If the FBI and local authorities had done their due diligence and investigated the kid in the Florida school shooting in the months leading up to it, and there were clear signs and warnings, this tragedy could have been prevented. This is what I meant by better enforcement.Possibly so, in that one instance. What about most of the other dozens of school shooters? Or the Las Vegas shooter? Most people don't telegraph their intent, to pick up on it you'd have to be watching all the time.

In point of fact, kids will say all kinds of shit to get attention or to act out. Are you going to imprison every kid who makes an inappropriate comment that might be taken as a threat? If so, for how long? Life in prison for the bullied kid who says "I hope you die" to his tormentor?

Don

Of course not, investigate them and determine the credibility of their threats, check social media history, mental health history, etc, then intervene accordingly.

[DJL 235]

Quote

If the FBI and local authorities had done their due diligence and investigated the kid in the Florida school shooting in the months leading up to it, and there were clear signs and warnings, this tragedy could have been prevented. This is what I meant by better enforcement.

I hear what you're saying but that's such a exception to the rule that it's an easy answer only in hindsight. I've heard people say some crazy shit, kids say crazy shit, angry crazy kids say crazier shit. This is the one time where we've been able to say that someone should have looked at this harder and having all the information on the table it's obvious to us and I know even the FBI is saying that they should have acted.

What blows my mind is that we have a couple of instances where someone with mental health issues shot people up and everyone wants to create some kind of mental health evaluation group that has the potential to be more intrusive and restrictive than any gun safety law we could imagine.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

Of course not, investigate them and determine the credibility of their threats, check social media history, mental health history, etc, then intervene accordingly.

OK, that seems reasonable. How long do you think that would take? A couple of days at least, or more like a week if you are going to interview the kid, family, friends, teachers, get a warrant to access medical records, get a warrant to search their home. So, how many agents would it take to deal with the volume of tips? You'd have to have some in every big city and more to cover rural areas. So what would that be, another 1,000 FBI agents? 10,000? Who's going to pay for them? Shall we cut the budget for the military to pay for it? Medical research?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DJL 235]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Of course not, investigate them and determine the credibility of their threats, check social media history, mental health history, etc, then intervene accordingly.

OK, that seems reasonable. How long do you think that would take? A couple of days at least, or more like a week if you are going to interview the kid, family, friends, teachers, get a warrant to access medical records, get a warrant to search their home. So, how many agents would it take to deal with the volume of tips? You'd have to have some in every big city and more to cover rural areas. So what would that be, another 1,000 FBI agents? 10,000? Who's going to pay for them? Shall we cut the budget for the military to pay for it? Medical research?

Don

And of course in the meantime we're paying teachers so little that they're walking out in protest.

Amazing how quickly Americans get behind a program if it means we don't have to address gun violence.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

DJL

***

Quote

Of course not, investigate them and determine the credibility of their threats, check social media history, mental health history, etc, then intervene accordingly.

OK, that seems reasonable. How long do you think that would take? A couple of days at least, or more like a week if you are going to interview the kid, family, friends, teachers, get a warrant to access medical records, get a warrant to search their home. So, how many agents would it take to deal with the volume of tips? You'd have to have some in every big city and more to cover rural areas. So what would that be, another 1,000 FBI agents? 10,000? Who's going to pay for them? Shall we cut the budget for the military to pay for it? Medical research?

Don

And of course in the meantime we're paying teachers so little that they're walking out in protest.

Amazing how quickly Americans get behind a program if it means we don't have to address gun violence.

Or it means more guns...

[gowlerk 2,253]

Quote

You have to put it this way, they may be good people and have a message and they may want to do what's best for the US but you can't do all of that if you're not in office and you're not in office without big money donors.

Mitch McConnell, a man I admire for his intelligence and hate for his policies put this best. He said "winners make policy, losers go home".

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mr2mk1g 10]

This thread is hilarious. Americans saying they value their freedom so much that they would rather have the Stasi than give up their AR.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

mr2mk1g

This thread is hilarious. Americans saying they value their freedom so much that they would rather have the Stasi than give up their AR.

Iraq under Saddam H. had very high gun ownership. First things the Americans did, to help bring freedom to Iraq, was severely restrict gun ownership.

Of course the American is far, far superior to Iraqi's so for them it works opposite. You need massive, unrestricted gun ownership to somehow have freedom.

[riggerrob 643]

Did anyone see all the school kids who took 17 minutes to remember the victims on Wednesday?
Has anyone considered that they are the next generation of voters?

[yoink 321]

riggerrob

Did anyone see all the school kids who took 17 minutes to remember the victims on Wednesday?
Has anyone considered that they are the next generation of voters?

That's OK. We've got years to indoctrinate them into the right way of thinking. MORE GUNS!

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

riggerrob

Did anyone see all the school kids who took 17 minutes to remember the victims on Wednesday?
Has anyone considered that they are the next generation of voters?

That was noted on this week's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" on NPR.

The comparison to the kids back in the 60s who protested the war and the draft.

Tom Boudette then made a comment that their idealism and enthusiasm created a wave of protest that swept George McGovern into the presidency.

I'm not knocking them, even though I disagree with them.
More kids are killed texting and driving than by school shootings.

But they feel its important enough to put the time and energy and risk the consequences of their disobedience. I respect and admire that.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BIGUN 1,424]

How about child shootings period.

According to a 2017 report in the medical journal Pediatrics, firearms-related injuries are the third leading cause of death for children between the ages of 1 and 17 in the United States. From 2012 to 2014, an average of 1,297 children in the United States died each year from a firearm-related injury, the study showed.

Analyzing data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, The Post’s editorial board found that “on average, 23 children were shot each day in the United States in 2015. Of the approximately 8,400 shootings, 1,458 were fatal, a death toll that exceeds the entire number of U.S. military fatalities in Afghanistan this decade.”

SOURCE: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/03/19/a-9-year-old-wanted-the-video-game-controller-from-his-sister-so-he-shot-her-police-say/?utm_term=.e242efdfb79f

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[billvon 3,078]

Quote

According to a 2017 report in the medical journal Pediatrics, firearms-related injuries are the third leading cause of death for children between the ages of 1 and 17 in the United States. From 2012 to 2014, an average of 1,297 children in the United States died each year from a firearm-related injury, the study showed.

Seems like it would make sense to study it as a public health problem, then.

[BIGUN 1,424]

Smartass.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,424]

Quote

- Treat it like a public health problem, which it is, and come up with a long term solution. The first step is to understand the problem. Task the CDC with studying the problem - study causes, do trials for mitigations and do the epidemiological analysis necessary to better understand what drives it, and more importantly what works and what doesn't to mitigate it.

Bill signed yesterday:

The Fix NICS Act, which modestly improves the existing gun background-check system, plus a provision instructing the Centers for Disease Control that it is free to conduct research on gun violence. Such research was effectively stopped in 1996.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/03/23/why-is-trump-raging-about-the-budget-because-democrats-got-most-of-what-they-wanted/?utm_term=.f2e97e074bba

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,424]

We have officially lost our collective minds.

“Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone,” Helsel explained about his Blue Mountain School District in Schuylkill County, northeast of Harrisburg, in a video broadcast by ABC affiliate 16 WNEP. “If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks, and they will be stoned.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/23/this-school-districts-plan-to-stop-shooters-a-bucket-of-rocks-for-students-to-throw-at-them/?utm_term=.e68510f7fcb2

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[nolhtairt 0]

So, the school in Florida that had the mass shooting, has now required clear backpacks, and the activist students aren't happy.

Well la dee dah, you walked out of school to protest. The school came up with a solution that is already in use at other schools across the country (not all), and you don't like it? Get with the program and suck it up buddy.

[gowlerk 2,253]

Quote

The school came up with a solution that is already in use at other schools across the country (not all), and you don't like it? Get with the program and suck it up buddy.

What accommodations are you willing to make? Are you willing to give up any of your access to the toys of war to help?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

I am so happy my kids live in a society where their fears are around friendship, grades, performance and if some other kid likes them......not if they are going to make it home for dinner.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

nolhtairt

So, the school in Florida that had the mass shooting, has now required clear backpacks, and the activist students aren't happy.

Well la dee dah, you walked out of school to protest. The school came up with a solution that is already in use at other schools across the country (not all), and you don't like it? Get with the program and suck it up buddy.

In what way, shape or form would this have affected the recent shooting?

The shooter wasn't a student.
He used a rifle that, even if taken apart, would not have fit in a backpack.

This is a "do something, do anything" solution that won't have any real effect.
And the student activists understand that.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BIGUN 1,424]

Quote

This is a "do something, do anything" solution that won't have any real effect.
And the student activists understand that.

That's only one item of several the superintendent has laid out:

Efforts include limiting visitors to a single entry point (We do this with primary and secondary security buzz ins... A buzz to unlock the front door, a second after you've scanned your DL, had your picture taken, is cross-referenced in the database and a badge is printed out as being authorized to be on the school property to be allowed in the student section of the school (LobbyGuard).

Providing a minimum of one school resource officer at every campus (we have this. EDIT: Well, we actually have campus police)

Conducting risk assessments for all district schools by the beginning of the next school year (we do this).

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,424]

Quote

toys of war

My first instinct to this kind of comment is - they don't have to. We have a 2nd Amendment that's been upheld by SCOTUS - The same SCOTUS you revere when they find on the side of numerous personal and equal rights.

The second instinct is to ask - How are you defining "toys of war?" And who gets to make that decision? One of the greatest "toys of war" was developed in the early 20th century and manufactured in the UK (British Enfield) and is responsible for the deaths of many. It is now considered a low-end early entry hunting rifle. And, it can be cut down, put on a polymer stock and made to look like current assault rifle or "a toy of war." Bans don't work. Just ask the 420 crowd.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gowlerk 2,253]

Quote

Bans don't work.

There you go again with your fear of "bans". Restrictions are not bans. And they do work everywhere in the world. Even in America. You already live with restrictions, you just need to increase them. The goal is not to eliminate gun violence. The goal is to reduce it. But your testicles retract into your body and you quake with rage whenever anyone suggests that your access to weapons you have no need of is reduced. You are still willing to accept the dead children. Because your rights are more important than them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

Bans don't work.

But restrictions have been shown to be effective.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

BIGUN

We have officially lost our collective minds.

“Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone,” Helsel explained about his Blue Mountain School District in Schuylkill County, northeast of Harrisburg, in a video broadcast by ABC affiliate 16 WNEP. “If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks, and they will be stoned.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/03/23/this-school-districts-plan-to-stop-shooters-a-bucket-of-rocks-for-students-to-throw-at-them/?utm_term=.e68510f7fcb2

Yeh, but if it calms people down and settles that knee jerk "we have to do something, anything" urge without arming even more people it's a bargain.