billvon 3,110 #151 November 26, 2018 Plus effects of the tax cut on the deficit: ========== A growing economy usually leads to smaller budget deficits. But that isn't happening in the United States in large part because of the tax overhaul, which is costing the federal government more money than it is bringing in and blowing out the deficit to a projected $925 billion for 2018, up nearly 40 percent from last year. The deficit would jump to $1.1 trillion in 2019 and $1.2 trillion in 2020, when the country's debt-to-GDP ratio would hit 71 percent, according to the forecast's methodology. It's an open question whether those big deficits will matter. . . . High debt levels can eventually lead to higher interest rates — and slower GDP growth. =========== And the trade war: ========== A brutal midweek sell-off added up to a collective $800 billion in value lost by the tech giants Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google’s parent, Alphabet. (The S&P 500 was down 3.8 percent, one of its worst performances ever during a Thanksgiving week.) Analysts attribute the turbulence to President Trump’s global trade conflicts, a tightening labor market and rising interest rates, all of which threaten corporate profits. It may also be a sign that we’re headed for an inevitable slowdown in growth, ending one of the longest bull markets in history. =========== Looks like we might see the Trump recession sooner rather than later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #152 November 26, 2018 kallend******" America Alone, indeed ... But the majority of Trump supporters don't see that as a bad thing, and you'll never convince them otherwise. I doubt that the majority of Trump supporters even realize that tariffs are taxes that they end up paying. Difference is you have choice not to pay the tax...Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #153 November 26, 2018 airdvr*********" America Alone, indeed ... But the majority of Trump supporters don't see that as a bad thing, and you'll never convince them otherwise. I doubt that the majority of Trump supporters even realize that tariffs are taxes that they end up paying. Difference is you have choice not to pay the tax... It is cute that you think that. Does it help you cope? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #154 November 26, 2018 SkyDekker************" America Alone, indeed ... But the majority of Trump supporters don't see that as a bad thing, and you'll never convince them otherwise. I doubt that the majority of Trump supporters even realize that tariffs are taxes that they end up paying. Difference is you have choice not to pay the tax... It is cute that you think that. Does it help you cope? No need to cope. I'm doing fine thanks.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,172 #155 November 26, 2018 More winning, MAGA. trump just finished negotiating the new NAFTA...er... the United StatesMexicoCA trade accord. Another victory for his supporters. Guess GM didn't get the message because there is no layoffs in Mexico. More layoffs in the US than in Canada. MAGA, leadership by trump. Today he is tweeting that he is permanently going to close the US Mexico border. That would certainly help US manufacturing with $1.68 billion in trade every day. Trump Aide: GM's Warning on U.S. Tariffs Is 'Smoke and Mirrors' June 30, 2018 http://fortune.com/2018/06/30/peter-navarro-gm-tariffs/ An aide to President Donald Trump dismissed as “smoke and mirrors” complaints by General Motors Co. and other American companies about the impact of U.S. tariffs on their operations. White House trade adviser Peter Navarro’s comments followed GM’s stern warning to the Trump administration on Friday that it could shrink U.S. operations and cut jobs if tariffs are broadly applied to imported vehicles and auto parts. “Increased import tariffs could lead to a smaller GM, a reduced presence at home and risk less — not more — U.S. jobs,” the nation’s largest automaker said in comments submitted Friday to the Commerce Department. Skip to five months later: So much winning. trump will be attacking GM via tweets later today. Must distract the cult. Mueller...must distract. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #156 November 26, 2018 Ohio, Michigan and Maryland will have factories closed and workers out of jobs. Ohio and Michigan voted Trump. Elections have consequences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #157 November 26, 2018 >Difference is you have choice not to pay the tax... You can also choose not to pay income, property or sales taxes. But republicans still bitch and moan about them. Funny; it's almost like they have two different standards. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #158 November 26, 2018 SkyDekkerOhio, Michigan and Maryland will still have factories closed and workers out of jobs. Ohio and Michigan voted Trump. Elections have consequences. No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Any that come back will be icing.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #159 November 26, 2018 >No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Ah, so Trump lied. Very good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #160 November 26, 2018 billvon>No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Ah, so Trump lied. Very good. Already gone...long before 2016. When did Trump say those jobs were not already gone?Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #161 November 26, 2018 airdvr***>No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Ah, so Trump lied. Very good. Already gone...long before 2016. When did Trump say those jobs were not already gone? Lol, is that the new talking point? Trump always said those jobs wouldn't come back? Looks like Trump supporters in particular and Republicans in general have given up any pretense of facts and reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #162 November 26, 2018 airdvr***Ohio, Michigan and Maryland will still have factories closed and workers out of jobs. Ohio and Michigan voted Trump. Elections have consequences. No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Any that come back will be icing. You do understand that GM announced something like 14 thousand layoffs and 5 major plants closing... Today. Not before the election. Not back in 2016. Today. Phil1111trump will be attacking GM via tweets later today. Must distract the cult. Mueller...must distract. Yeah. He was 'very tough' on the GM CEO. Quote"I was very tough. I spoke with her when I heard they were closing and I said, you know, this country has done a lot for General Motors," Trump said, referring to the federal bailout of the company after the 2008 financial crash. He later repeated: "You know, the United States saved General Motors, and for her to take that company out of Ohio is not good." "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #163 November 27, 2018 airdvr***Ohio, Michigan and Maryland will still have factories closed and workers out of jobs. Ohio and Michigan voted Trump. Elections have consequences. No worries. Factory jobs were already gone. Any that come back will be icing. Aren't you embarrassed?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #164 November 27, 2018 He should be, this is what Trump said in Ohio in 2017: Quote"I'll tell ya what, I rode through your beautiful roads coming up from the [Youngstown Warren Regional] Airport and I was looking at some of those big, once-incredible job-producing factories," Trump said in front of a sold out Covelli Centre. "And my wife Melania said, 'What happened?' I said, 'Those jobs have left Ohio.' They're all coming back. They're all coming back." But like I said, for Trumpies facts and reality have no bearing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #165 November 27, 2018 SkyDekkerHe should be, this is what Trump said in Ohio in 2017: Quote"I'll tell ya what, I rode through your beautiful roads coming up from the [Youngstown Warren Regional] Airport and I was looking at some of those big, once-incredible job-producing factories," Trump said in front of a sold out Covelli Centre. "And my wife Melania said, 'What happened?' I said, 'Those jobs have left Ohio.' They're all coming back. They're all coming back." But like I said, for Trumpies facts and reality have no bearing. You and your biased. fact-based elitist reporting. They oughta kick you off the Internet. That will teach you some respect for Trump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #166 November 27, 2018 airdvr*********" America Alone, indeed ... But the majority of Trump supporters don't see that as a bad thing, and you'll never convince them otherwise. I doubt that the majority of Trump supporters even realize that tariffs are taxes that they end up paying. Difference is you have choice not to pay the tax... QED... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #167 November 27, 2018 I expect nothing less from the usual cast of characters here. You really believe Mary Barra walked into the conference room yesterday and dropped this bomb? They've been planning this for years. Pre-tax profits in 2017 for its North American operations was 11.9 billion. Tariffs are not the reason this happened.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,172 #168 November 27, 2018 airdvrI expect nothing less from the usual cast of characters here. You really believe Mary Barra walked into the conference room yesterday and dropped this bomb? They've been planning this for years. Pre-tax profits in 2017 for its North American operations was 11.9 billion. Tariffs are not the reason this happened. You need to fact check before you spread FOX talking points. GM posts strong 2017 despite losses "General Motors Co. was the only Detroit automaker to post a net loss in 2017, down $3.9 billion as it adjusts for the new tax law and takes one last hit from the money-losing European business"... GM characterized as a “transformative year” comes as part of an industry-wide evolution, said Karl Brauer, an automotive analyst for Kelley Blue Book. He said automakers will have to be smart about adjusting to shrinking sales volumes — especially in the U.S. — after years of record-breaking sales and a consumer return to lucrative trucks and SUVs that fattened profit margins. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2018/02/06/gm-annual-earnings/110146218/ Ford Betting Big on Trucks, SUVs and Hybrids https://www.thestreet.com/story/14524435/1/ford-betting-big-on-trucks-suvs-and-hybrids.html Fiat Chrysler's bet on Jeeps and trucks lifts quarterly profit https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/uv/fiat-chryslers-bet-on-jeeps-and-trucks-lifts-quarterly-profit/61213577 FCA has been retooling some U.S. factories to boost output of sport-utility vehicles (SUVs) and trucks while ending production of some unprofitable sedans to boost profitability in North America, where it makes the lion's share of profit. So every NA. automaker is going to chase trucks, SUVs, and crossovers. While scientists release multiple reports on global warming. Sounds about right. Where the rubber meets the road: America’s Aging Vehicles Delay Rate of Fleet Turnover http://energyfuse.org/americas-aging-vehicles-delay-rate-fleet-turnover/ - US auto buyers are driving vehicles longer on average mostly due to cost and increased reliability. Now at 12 years. -New vehicles as a proportion of the overall fleet is at historic highs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #169 November 27, 2018 Still not seeing where tariffs had anything to do with this.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 892 #170 November 27, 2018 Right? Why would an additional billion dollars in costs affect your business plans? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,172 #171 November 27, 2018 normissRight? Why would an additional billion dollars in costs affect your business plans? and: 1. Where is the tremendous benefit of the $1 trillion in tax cuts for American business. trump said it would drive a rebirth of US manufacturing. 2. Where is the tremendous benefit of the elimination of US: a. Trump administration moves to revoke Obama-era fuel economy standards https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/trump-administration-revokes-obama-era-fuel-economy-standards-n896846 b. Automakers spent months lobbying the Trump administration to weaken the EPA’s clean-car standards. But they’re not sure they wanted them that weak. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/car-industry-trump-epa/566738/ Europe and Asia are not going to buy gas guzzling US built trucks and SUVs. That have zero emission standards. The only overseas market for them is the oil rich Arab states and trump country in the central US. trump had the opportunity to join a free trade zone in the EU together with Canada. CETA: A progressive trade agreement for a strong middle class http://www.international.gc.ca/gac-amc/campaign-campagne/ceta-aecg/index.aspx?lang=eng But trump and his clan don't believe in free trade. So instead of GM converting these plants to build small fuel efficient autos for the EU markets and Asia. To take advantage of #1. aforementioned. There will be layoffs. trump could have signed a free trade agreement with: Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) https://international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/cptpp-ptpgp/index.aspx?lang=eng but as in the preceding paragraph. "There will be layoffs." GM could be taking advantage of a weak US dollar to drive exports. But instead a $1 trillion dollar deficit is driving up the dollar because the US needs to finance that on world bond markets.That would be the trump/republican $1 trillion deficit. So "There will be layoffs." Hope that helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #172 November 27, 2018 normissRight? Why would an additional billion dollars in costs affect your business plans? Oh yeah! Well...um.....prove that a billion dollars affected the business plans then!"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iago 8 #173 November 27, 2018 airdvrStill not seeing where tariffs had anything to do with this. They didn't have anything to do with the GM restructure in progress. The brands being discontinued have had sales dropping 15-20% over the past years. By shutting down those brands, related facilities and trimming the workforce GM is getting as much cost out of the operation as possible. Happens all the time in industry with adjustment to changing consumer demands. Production shutdowns were a regular thing when I was in pulp and paper. Will those facilities reopen and produce new consumer demanded vehicles after further R&D? Possibly, but probably not for a few years. Depends on what happens with self-driving, electric, and fleet vehicle markets.Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,172 #174 November 27, 2018 Iago***Still not seeing where tariffs had anything to do with this. They didn't have anything to do with the GM restructure in progress. The brands being discontinued have had sales dropping 15-20% over the past years. By shutting down those brands, related facilities and trimming the workforce GM is getting as much cost out of the operation as possible. Happens all the time in industry with adjustment to changing consumer demands. Production shutdowns were a regular thing when I was in pulp and paper. Will those facilities reopen and produce new consumer demanded vehicles after further R&D? Possibly, but probably not for a few years. Depends on what happens with self-driving, electric, and fleet vehicle markets. That is partially correct. GM Cuts Jobs And Plants To Deal With Changing Tastes And Trump Tariffs https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidkiley5/2018/11/26/gm-cuts-jobs-and-plants-to-deal-with-changing-tastes-and-trump-tariffs/#5a9040c96057 It costs allot of money to open a auto assembly plant. They typically develop a huge nearby base of suppliers of parts and components. Many of which are located nearby. When a auto assembly plant is shifted to a new model the lines are retooled. Reorganized to take advantage of new technology and equipped with the metal stamping, painting and assembly process unique to the new models. It costs billions to shutter plants. There is the cost of severance of employees and the write off of the land,building, auto specific plant process, etc. Once closed they almost never reopen. Many of the employees will never work in a auto assembly plant again. GM to invest $877 million to overhaul Flint, Michigan, truck plant "In the past, GM and its domestic rivals would shut down production for weeks to retool for new models, stockpiling vehicles in advance and then discounting them once the new model appeared. People familiar with the company’s plans say GM’s next-generation pickups and SUVs will make use of various materials, including aluminum and lightweight steel, to shed weight and gain fuel efficiency to meet tougher federal standards. Assembling the new vehicles will require substantially different equipment than the tools GM uses today." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-trucks/gm-to-invest-877-million-to-overhaul-flint-michigan-truck-plant-idUSKCN0Q91IK20150804 So at a cost of, perhaps, $1 billion per plant GM could have retooled these plants for new fuel efficient sedans for offshore markets. But it has chosen instead to compete with the other two of the "Big Three" legacy US auto makers for the same US markets of trucks and SUVs. Instead there will be layoffs. Think trump. Ford is remaining in the EU despite slim profits. GM lost billions, upwards of $20 billion.Hence its exit from EU operations in 2016-17. Fiat Chrysler is gaining market share with some profits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #175 November 27, 2018 airdvrI expect nothing less from the usual cast of characters here. You really believe Mary Barra walked into the conference room yesterday and dropped this bomb? They've been planning this for years. Pre-tax profits in 2017 for its North American operations was 11.9 billion. Tariffs are not the reason this happened. Not in the slightest bit relevant to my comment.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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