DACA

[gowlerk 2,277]

DACA constitutional or not? Interesting legal question. But it's really a political question. Trump has wavered on ending it and is sending clear signals to congress that he wants it legalized. Or at least he wants the blame for ending it taken away from him.

Far more interesting than what the courts will do is what will congress do. There is a ton of support even among conservatives for the dreamers. That's why Trump did not have the balls to pull the trigger on ending DACA.

What do all you think A) should happen and B) will happen?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,469]

Hi Ken,

Quote

What do all you think A) should happen and B) will happen?

I think it should & I am quite sure it will.

The R's s*** in their own nest when they backed Trump. So far, that is costing them support; even among their true believers. To not do it ( pass DACA legistation ), would cost them even more.

Just my opinion, nothing more,

Jerry Baumchen

[Lawndarter 3]

airdvr

[ I guess if you can't attack the argument you must attack the poster..

There wasn't any "argument" to attack, that's what we were all laughing at.

[airdvr 210]

Lawndarter

***[ I guess if you can't attack the argument you must attack the poster..

There wasn't any "argument" to attack, that's what we were all laughing at.

I don't see anyone laughing. While I'm conservative and not stupid, I at least have the courage of my convictions. If your posting a link whose headline reads Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs isn't a reference to my intelligence I'm not sure what it is. I don't mind if that's your belief but at least stick to it man.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[gowlerk 2,277]

Quote

Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs

That is not the same thing as saying conservatives are stupid. Right-wing and conservative are not the same thing to begin with. And just showing a tendency does not mean all individuals.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Looks like the study might not be so crazy.

[billvon 3,121]

>"Study links low intelligence with right-wing beliefs"

That states that some right wing beliefs (like anti-gay and anti-diversity beliefs; social conservatism, in other words) are linked with low intelligence, which is pretty supportable since highly educated people on the average do not believe in those things - and educational level attained does correlate with intelligence.

Note that even if all people of average (or slightly above/below average) intelligence, whether right or left wing, share a similar level of belief in those things, the influence of the highly educated would still result in that outcome.

To put it another way:

"Do smart people tend to be more liberal? Yes, but it doesn’t mean all conservatives are stupid."

http://theconversation.com/do-smart-people-tend-to-be-more-liberal-yes-but-it-doesnt-mean-all-conservatives-are-stupid-57713

[Skwrl 56]

rushmc

***Lol, you answer a question with a statement and then ask the other person to refute the statement that didn't answer the question.

Lawyers on both sides said this would be overturned.

kallend does not care because laws and constitutional limitations only apply to Repuplicans

Well, no. Not really. https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdfs/Immigrants/LawProfLetterDACAFinal8.13.pdf

I've yet to read an equivalently well researched analysis that concludes that it is unconstitutional. If you guys have one, I'm eager to read it.

Pro-tip: things aren't "unconstitutional" because you don't like them.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[rushmc 23]

Even though you are wrong (on many counts) it really does not matter. It was put in place by an executive pen, it can then be ended the same way.

As the rest is just whining and grinding of the teeth.

But in the end, even Obama admitted many times he did not have the power to start DACA.

http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Under our Constitution, Congress has plenary authority over immigration.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

Even though you are wrong (on many counts) it really does not matter. It was put in place by an executive pen, it can then be ended the same way.

As the rest is just whining and grinding of the teeth.

But in the end, even Obama admitted many times he did not have the power to start DACA.

http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted

Can you quote from that article where Obama said DACA is unconstitutional?

[rushmc 23]

How about Obama saying it himself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5aEwF4T9R0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HwTLekeRGA

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 210]

Skwrl

******Lol, you answer a question with a statement and then ask the other person to refute the statement that didn't answer the question.

Lawyers on both sides said this would be overturned.

kallend does not care because laws and constitutional limitations only apply to Repuplicans

Well, no. Not really. https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdfs/Immigrants/LawProfLetterDACAFinal8.13.pdf

I've yet to read an equivalently well researched analysis that concludes that it is unconstitutional. If you guys have one, I'm eager to read it.

Pro-tip: things aren't "unconstitutional" because you don't like them.

And vice versa.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

Well?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Link one he is talking about TPS, which is very different from DACA. DACA also doesn't order the stop of deportations.

Second link is all kinds of quotes without context and fully meaningless.

But, if you can find a part in those videos where he specifically addresses DACA, let me know.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Link one he is talking about TPS, which is very different from DACA. DACA also doesn't order the stop of deportations.

Second link is all kinds of quotes without context and fully meaningless.

But, if you can find a part in those videos where he specifically addresses DACA, let me know.

Nice dodge dude

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

So you can't find anywhere where Obama says DACA is unconstitutional like you claimed eh?

[billvon 3,121]

>How about Obama saying it himself?

You didn't watch them, did you.

In the first one he says that suspending deportations would exceed his authority. That doesn't mean that he can't make decisions to emphasize certain classes of people for enforcement. (He also says that; you missed that apparently.)

The second one repeats clips of the first speech.

So it sounds like he did exactly what he said he would do - not suspend deportations, or ignore laws passed by Congress, but rather emphasize some classes of people for deportation ("bad hombres" to use Trump's language) and de-emphasize others (people who did nothing wrong and are good members of the community.)

Which is why it's called "deferred action" and not "amnesty."

Your posts have this consistent property to them; you post something that you think proves your point, when in fact it proves the opposite. Is that because you just copy them from right wing websites without even looking at them?

[kallend 2,156]

SkyDekker

The author of that piece also wrote:

Quote

I believe that the issue of Obama's personal radicalism, including his collaboration with radical, America-hating Leftists, should have been disqualifying

I don't think I will take his opinion as overly unbiased when it comes to DACA's legality.

Obama was a law professor specializing in Constitutional law. Trump is a racist lying philandering POS.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BIGUN 1,491]

Here is a more recent discussion regarding DACA from CNN where both sides are given. For me, Trump turning it over to Congress and extending it for 2 years was the right thing to do. Here. Decide, make the laws, then let's move forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbEnm69WgO8

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

"whatever" was an exceptionally strong come back.

[Skwrl 56]

rushmc

Even though you are wrong (on many counts) it really does not matter. It was put in place by an executive pen, it can then be ended the same way.

As the rest is just whining and grinding of the teeth.

But in the end, even Obama admitted many times he did not have the power to start DACA.

http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted

You made the statement it was unconstitutional. I provided a fairly compelling analysis it is not. You then changed the topic to say it doesn't matter, it was rescinded by executive order.

I stand by my question: please show me how it's unconstitutional. Regardless of repeal, the analysis of constitutionality of an executive order such as this one is relevant.

Oh, out of mild curiosity, since that's the only thing I've said in this thread, what other things relating to DACA am I wrong about?

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[Skwrl 56]

rushmc

***Link one he is talking about TPS, which is very different from DACA. DACA also doesn't order the stop of deportations.

Second link is all kinds of quotes without context and fully meaningless.

But, if you can find a part in those videos where he specifically addresses DACA, let me know.

Nice dodge dude



Speaking of dodges, you just did one by not answering how it's unconstitutional. Not "Obama said so". That's not a legal analysis. I'm looking for an actual, reasoned analysis.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[Skwrl 56]

airdvr

*********Lol, you answer a question with a statement and then ask the other person to refute the statement that didn't answer the question.

Lawyers on both sides said this would be overturned.

kallend does not care because laws and constitutional limitations only apply to Repuplicans

Well, no. Not really. https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdfs/Immigrants/LawProfLetterDACAFinal8.13.pdf

I've yet to read an equivalently well researched analysis that concludes that it is unconstitutional. If you guys have one, I'm eager to read it.

Pro-tip: things aren't "unconstitutional" because you don't like them.

And vice versa.

... which is why I provided legal reasoning for my position. See how it works?

I actually don't support DACA, although I do think it was Constitutional.

However, I do support cogent legal reasoning, however, which RushMC's arguments are short on.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[BIGUN 1,491]

SkyDekker

"whatever" was an exceptionally strong come back.

IKR

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.