Sheriff Joe Arpaio GUILTY

[Phil1111 1,168]

ryoder

***
It may hurt them quite a bit to accept the pardon. I know you know this, but accepting the pardon is an admission of guilt and can be used in civil court.

I heard that exact point on a radio interview with a legal expert yesterday.

Thats all hunky-dory but in order to sue the trump tribe you would have to prove personal damages. A personal direct harm arising from trump selling out, borrowing from, favoring and conceding interests to Russian/Putin. Without a direct personal link or corporate damages such a claim would likely be struck by the courts.

The US state would be unlikely to pursue such a action.

[DJL 235]

Phillbo

I just want the media hound Arpaio to fade away. Sick of hearing him and about him.

The Sheriffs department is much better off under the new leadership.

I've largely ignored Arpaio as just a far right poster-boy but now that I've ready what has happened while he held office I think it's important for everyone to know more. He's a monster.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[aphid 0]

DJL

I've largely ignored Arpaio as just a far right poster-boy but now that I've ready what has happened while he held office I think it's important for everyone to know more. He's a monster.

The issue that always arises is that by choosing to ignore uncomfortable people, events, and/or politicians, they are empowered to grow even stronger, more defiant and cause even greater damage. Damages that often inflict very heavy personal tolls on innocent individuals.

Claims of Arpaio's bigotry aside, in his role as a "law enforcement officer" he purposefully and publicly defied a lawful order of the Court supporting the US Constitution. To defend him, or worse yet, to defend the (imho) premature Presidential pardon is not an act of patriotism.

[billvon 3,107]

Phil1111

trump is just setting the bar low so that when the pardons are issued for Ivanka, Don Jr., etc. Nobody will get too upset!

That's been the assumption for a while now. Trump will get Manafort alone in the hallway and say "you say anything against me and I'll see to it that your family is destroyed. But keep quiet and I'll pardon you."

But Mueller is certainly no idiot, and he's anticipated Trump trying this. And fortunately there is a way he can ensure that such people do not escape justice - by enlisting the help of a state attorney general. Trump can pardon people for federal crimes, but not state crimes.

From the Daily Intelligencer:

================================
Donald Trump’s ability to issue presidential pardons has been the ultimate weapon looming over Robert Mueller’s investigation. Trump could potentially pardon himself of any crimes. More important, he could dangle a pardon to his former staffers to encourage them not to supply Mueller with any incriminating information on Trump. Mueller is apparently handling his investigating like the prosecution of a mob boss, pressuring underlings to flip on the boss. Trump’s advantage is that, unlike a mob boss, he can give out an unlimited number of get-out-of-jail-free cards. Trump has reportedly mused in public about using the pardon — and his pardon of Joe Arpaio flaunted his willingness to use it on behalf of a political ally, even in outrageous fashion.

But it turns out that there is a flaw in Trump’s strategy. The presidential pardon only applies to federal crimes. As NBC reported last night, it is possible for state governments to press charges in some of the alleged crimes committed by Trump’s cronies. “You would have to find that one of those [election] crimes occurred in New York,” Jennifer Rodgers, a former federal prosecutor, told NBC. Of course, some of the alleged crimes almost certainly did take place in New York. And sure enough, Josh Dawsey reports, Mueller is teaming up with New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman. “One of the people familiar with progress on the case said both Mueller’s and Schneiderman’s teams have collected evidence on financial crimes, including potential money laundering,” he notes.

Trump can pardon anybody facing charges from Mueller, but not from Schneiderman. It is probably significant that Mueller is letting this fact be known to Trump’s inner circle. Trump’s biggest source of leverage over Mueller just disappeared.
==================================

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/robert-mueller-eliminates-trumps-trump-card.html

[gowlerk 2,272]

Even better is the fact that those convicted in a State Court will have to serve their time in a State prison. Not the usual Federal system that financial scofflaws often do find less unpleasant.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,463]

Hi Ken

Quote

Not the usual Federal system

I've been in the 'Club Fed' at Allenwood, PA a number of times for work. While these facilities do not have walls, fences or guards, they are still a prison and it feels just like the other federal prisons that I have also been in for work.

This whole 'Club Fed' thing IMO is nothing like what a lot of people think it is like. Only the employees smile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Allenwood

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 2,272]

Hi Jerry,
I agree that prison is prison. But the degree of over crowded bunking and the level of scary people is going to make state prison quite a bit more unpleasant.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 891]

Hey Jerry,

Much like the misconception of "genpop" in state prisons.

Mark

[JerryBaumchen 1,463]

Hi Ken,

Quote

make state prison quite a bit more unpleasant

Based upon what I have read only, I do agree.

While no prison is a piece of cake, I am of the opinion that a federal facility is more safe. Although, from personal experience, a federal prison can be very scary.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I've never been inside of any state prison; only federal prisons & only for work.

[normiss 891]

Dreamers: Broke no court orders, work, pay taxes. Deport! Arpaio: Abused people, broke law, dozens died. Pardon!

Trump's selective interpretation of law.

[kallend 2,146]

Federal judge rules he is still guilty despite pardon.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558978896/federal-judge-will-not-void-guilty-ruling-on-arpaio-despite-trumps-pardon

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,593]

kallend

Federal judge rules he is still guilty despite pardon.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558978896/federal-judge-will-not-void-guilty-ruling-on-arpaio-despite-trumps-pardon

Hehehe. Turns out doing an end run around the judicial system means you can no longer use the judicial system to your advantage:

"Arpaio attorney Jack Wilenchik said because of the pardon, the former sheriff will never have the chance to appeal the ruling, leaving him open to future lawsuits.

" 'What if an illegal alien who claims they were wrongfully detained were to sue civilly, then the fact that he was convicted of willfully defying the court order could be used against him,' said Wilenchik.

File it under "Guess you should'a thought of that first"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yoink 321]

kallend

Federal judge rules he is still guilty despite pardon.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558978896/federal-judge-will-not-void-guilty-ruling-on-arpaio-despite-trumps-pardon

Maybe I misunderstood how pardons work, but this seems completely obvious to me.

A pardon doesn't mean you're all of a sudden innocent of a crime that you've been found guilty of - just that you're pardoned from the direct consequence, right?

[Stumpy 284]

yoink

***
Federal judge rules he is still guilty despite pardon.

www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558978896/federal-judge-will-not-void-guilty-ruling-on-arpaio-despite-trumps-pardon

Maybe I misunderstood how pardons work, but this seems completely obvious to me.

A pardon doesn't mean you're all of a sudden innocent of a crime that you've been found guilty of - just that you're pardoned from the direct consequence, right?

Correct - and its almost more than that in that it's an implicit assumption of guilt.

Never try to eat more than you can lift