"Monumental, Unsustainable Environmental Impacts"

[billvon 3,090]

>With massive fed help.

Yep. The Fed is sure dumping a lot of money into . . . .solar power in Chile?

===============
Solar Sold in Chile at Lowest Ever, Half Price of Coal
By Vanessa Dezem
August 19, 2016

Solar power just sold for the lowest price ever, in Chile.

The Spanish developer Solarpack Corp. Tecnologica won contracts to sell power from a 120-megawatt solar plant for $29.10 a megawatt-hour at an energy auction this week.

That’s the lowest price on record for electricity from sunshine, surpassing a deal in Dubai in May. It’s the cheapest to date for any kind of renewable energy, and was almost half the price of coal power sold in the same event. According to Solarpack General Director Inigo Malo de Molina, it’s one of the lowest rates ever for any kind of electricity, anywhere.
===============

Let's look at unsubsidized costs:

===============
Unsubsidized wind and solar now the cheapest source for new electric power
Between 2015 and 2021, China is expected to install 40% of all worldwide wind energy and 36% of all solar

Lucas Mearian
Senior Reporter, Computerworld | Apr 17, 2017 12:31 PM PT

While investments in renewable energy slumped last year, a big drop in unsubsidized costs for new wind and solar power installations indicated that they remain popular energy alternatives.

Last year, the average "levelized cost" or total cost of generating power from solar worldwide dropped 17% percent, onshore wind costs dropped 18% and offshore wind turbine power costs fell 28%, according to a new report from the United Nations and Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).

"Well, after the dramatic cost reductions of the past few years, unsubsidized wind and solar can provide the lowest cost new electrical power in an increasing number of countries, even in the developing world -- sometimes by a factor of two," Michael Liebreich, chairman of the Advisory Board at BNEF, said in the report.

The average capital cost for solar power projects of new construction in 2016 was 13% lower than in 2015, while for onshore wind the drop was 11.5% and for offshore wind, 10%.

"It's a whole new world: even though investment is down, annual installations are still up; instead of having to subsidize renewables, now authorities may have to subsidize natural gas plants to help them provide grid reliability," Liebreich said.
=================

[billvon 3,090]

>Thus, it is impossible to conclude from the three published GAST data sets that recent years have been
>the warmest ever –despite current claims of record setting warming.

Source: Principia Scientific International

From Desmog Blog:

===============
Principia Scientific International (PSI) is an organization based in the United Kingdom which promotes fringe views and material to claim that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas.

PSI regularly publishes commentary which claims that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas and that it could actually cool the planet.

. . . .

In 2013, PSI also began to promote unfounded claims that wind turbines make people sick and that childhood vaccines were “one of the largest most evil lies in history.”
================

Climate change denial AND anti-vaxxing! A right wingers one stop shop.

Meanwhile, back here in reality:

Warmest years on record (rank/year/anomaly in F)

1 2016 +1.69
2 2015 +1.62
3 2014 +1.33
4 2010 +1.26
5 2013 +1.19
6 2005 +1.17
7 2009 +1.15
8 1998 +1.13
9 2012 +1.12

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Thus, it is impossible to conclude from the three published GAST data sets that recent years have been
>the warmest ever –despite current claims of record setting warming.

Source: Principia Scientific International

From Desmog Blog:

===============
Principia Scientific International (PSI) is an organization based in the United Kingdom which promotes fringe views and material to claim that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas.

PSI regularly publishes commentary which claims that carbon dioxide is not a greenhouse gas and that it could actually cool the planet.

. . . .

In 2013, PSI also began to promote unfounded claims that wind turbines make people sick and that childhood vaccines were “one of the largest most evil lies in history.”
================

Climate change denial AND anti-vaxxing! A right wingers one stop shop.

Meanwhile, back here in reality:

Warmest years on record (rank/year/anomaly in F)

1 2016 +1.69
2 2015 +1.62
3 2014 +1.33
4 2010 +1.26
5 2013 +1.19
6 2005 +1.17
7 2009 +1.15
8 1998 +1.13
9 2012 +1.12

Adjusted numbers to support the cause.
Can't be believed anymore.

Quote

The Undersigned Agree with the Conclusions of this Report:


Dr. Alan Carlin
Retired Senior Analyst and manager, US Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, DC.
Author, Environmentalism Gone Mad, Stairway Press, 2015.
Ph.D., Economics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA. BS, Physics, California
Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA.

Dr. Harold H. Doiron
Retired VP-Engineering Analysis and Test Division, InDyne, Inc. Ex-NASA JSC, Aerospace Consultant
B.S. Physics, University of Louisiana - Lafayette
M.S., Ph.D., Mechanical Engineering, University of Houston

Dr. Theodore R. Eck
Ph.D., Economics, Michigan State University M.A, Economics, University of Michigan Fulbright
Professor of International Economics
Former Chief Economist of Amoco Corp. and Exxon Venezuela
Advisory Board of the Gas Technology Institute and Energy Intelligence Group

Dr. Richard A. Keen
Instructor Emeritus of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Colorado Ph.D.,
Geography/Climatology, University of Colorado
M.S., Astro-Geophysics, University of Colorado B.A., Astronomy, Northwestern University

Dr. Anthony R. Lupo IPCC Expert Reviewer
Professor, Atmospheric Science, University of Missouri Ph.D., Atmospheric Science, Purdue
University
M.S., Atmospheric Science, Purdue University

Dr. Thomas P. Sheahen Ph.D., Physics, M.I.T.
B.S., Physics, M.I.T.

Dr. George T. Wolff
Former Chair EPA's Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee Ph.D., Environmental Sciences, Rutgers
University
M.S., Meteorology, New York University
B.S., Chemical Engineering, New Jersey Institute of Technology

Pretty impressive list don't you think?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

And you promote Desmog????

Quote

DeSmogBlog is a highly politicized climate alarmist website that attacks skeptics of catastrophic man-caused climate change and the organizations that support them. Co-founded by a convicted money launderer, the site is controlled by the controversial James Hoggan, owner of Hoggan & Associates, a for-profit public relations firm based in Canada. The site’s mission is to shame, silence, and criminally penalize climate realists.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Founded by a Convicted Money Launderer

John Lefebvre promotion shot. (via Wikipedia)
John Lefebvre promotion shot. (via Wikipedia)

While James Hoggan runs the site, the organization got its seed money in 2006 from co-founder John David Lefebvre, who plead guilty the following to felony money laundering charges. Lefebvre admitted to laundering billions of dollars in illegal gambling proceeds through his company, NETeller – a British online money transfer company that also traded in carbon dioxide emission credits.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,117]

rushmc

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/05/exclusive-study-finds-temperature-adjustments-account-for-nearly-all-of-the-warming-in-climate-data/

Daily Caller, very funny Marc.

Say Marc, does that company which pays your salary still spew 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Wow
I see now where you may have learned your practices of attacking deniers (as you call them)

Quote

We’re all about PR here, not much about science’

In a 2013 article at Watts Up With That titled “The Effects Of Environmentalist and Climate Alarmist Crying Wolf Begin To Appear,” Canadian climate scientist Tim Ball wrote about James Hoggan:


His PR Company has major alternate energy companies as clients. Hoggan is the proud creator of DeSmogBlog a web site that claims it is “Clearing the PR Pollution that clouds climate science” but mostly involves personal attacks on people asking questions. The objective was to denigrate people by creating “favorable interpretations” to the following questions. “Were these climate skeptics qualified? Were they doing any research in the climate change field? Were they accepting money, directly or indirectly, from the fossil fuel industry?” This doesn’t answer skeptics questions about the science.

they got a bunch of scandals in their history I see

http://leftexposed.org/2016/08/desmogblog/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,117]

rushmc

The Undersigned Agree with the Conclusions of this Report:

...

Pretty impressive list don't you think?

Wow, must be at least 0.01% of climate scientists.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

***

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/05/exclusive-study-finds-temperature-adjustments-account-for-nearly-all-of-the-warming-in-climate-data/

Daily Caller, very funny Marc.

Say Marc, does that company which pays your salary still spew 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year?

Missed the other link I see

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,117]

Say Marc, missed the question I see: does that company which pays your salary still spew 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

***

The Undersigned Agree with the Conclusions of this Report:

...

Pretty impressive list don't you think?

Wow, must be at least 0.01% of climate scientists.

So, the peer review process does not mean anything to you anymore then?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

kallend

Say Marc, missed the question I see: does that company which pays your salary still spew 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year?

Answered many times before

Ignored again today.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,117]

Quote

Answered many times before

Nope, you consistently avoid answering or give an evasive irrelevant answer.

"Yes" or "no" is easier than evasion: does that company which pays your salary still spew 30 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year?

It's a trivial forum search to find all your responses to the question, first asked in 2013. NOT ONCE have you given an actual answer.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,090]

>Answered many times before

No, you never have. You have given weasel answers like "but they have a lot of wind turbines too!"

But you have never been able to give a yes or no answer to that question. Which is characteristic of many climate change deniers - ask them a specific, concrete question that requires a factual answer, and they choke. Or, more often, go to wattsupwiththat.com and copy and paste something so they don't have to answer.

BTW congratulations on flipping back to a Type I denier - "the climate's not warming!" I predict you'll be back to Type II within a week or so.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Answered many times before

No, you never have. You have given weasel answers like "but they have a lot of wind turbines too!"

But you have never been able to give a yes or no answer to that question. Which is characteristic of many climate change deniers - ask them a specific, concrete question that requires a factual answer, and they choke. Or, more often, go to wattsupwiththat.com and copy and paste something so they don't have to answer.

BTW congratulations on flipping back to a Type I denier - "the climate's not warming!" I predict you'll be back to Type II within a week or so.

I have posted many times that the company I work for has coal fired plants. I hope they will build more but they sacked the last one and just brought a new combined cycle natural gas plant the ramps up or down very quickly to adapt to changing power outputs from wind and solar.
We are building another 300 meg of wind and are sponsoring some solar. We are rebuilding our infrastructure to handle distributed generation where ever it might show up. We have de-commissioned 2 coal fired plants with plans to de-commission more. These are old very inefficient plants.

Wind is not very popular in WI but it has some popularity here in IA. But it is getting less so all the time because of the noise and shadow flicker. We will see how this new build out goes.

kallend question is a stupid one because I don't care if a company I worked for put 100 trillion tons of CO2 in the air because it does not make any difference to the planet.

And it seems that warming can only be shown with manipulated data. But that's ok with you I see.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

So, the peer review process does not mean anything to you anymore then?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,090]

> I hope they will build more but they sacked the last one and just brought a new
>combined cycle natural gas plant the ramps up or down very quickly to adapt to
>changing power outputs from wind and solar.

>We are building another 300 meg of wind and are sponsoring some solar. We are
>rebuilding our infrastructure to handle distributed generation where ever it might
>show up. We have de-commissioned 2 coal fired plants with plans to de-commission
>more. These are old very inefficient plants.

Then you are fortunate; you are working for a company that will likely survive, as older companies that rely purely on denial fail. Getting access to dirt-cheap renewables will let companies like yours out-compete their less intelligent competitors.

>Wind is not very popular in WI but it has some popularity here in IA. But it is
>getting less so all the time because of the noise and shadow flicker.

IA percentage of electrical energy that comes from wind:
2013: 27.5%
2014: 28.4%
2015: 31.3%
2016: 36.5%
2017: 43.8% (projected)

>And it seems that warming can only be shown with manipulated data.

Warming can be shown by thermometers - and has been. Deniers have to jump through incredible hoops to spin that instrumental data into "no warming." Such attempts to spin the data would be all but impossible, but deniers have learned from their attempts in the past to deny that smoking causes cancer and that CFC's harm the ozone layer. They're getting better at it.

Of course, you've been burned by this before. Do you remember "there's only one problem with global warming - it ended in 1998!" As the climate continues to warm, claims like that (and more contemporary ones like the one you posted) will look more and more desperate; an attempt to deny basic science to enrich the coal and oil companies and defeat the evil libs.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

I don't care if a company I worked for put 100 trillion tons of CO2 in the air because it does not make any difference to the planet.

And it seems that warming can only be shown with manipulated data. But that's ok with you I see.

Priceless.

[rushmc 23]

There is no such thing as dirt cheap renewables at present.

I don't care what you post.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

> I hope they will build more but they sacked the last one and just brought a new
>combined cycle natural gas plant the ramps up or down very quickly to adapt to
>changing power outputs from wind and solar.

>We are building another 300 meg of wind and are sponsoring some solar. We are
>rebuilding our infrastructure to handle distributed generation where ever it might
>show up. We have de-commissioned 2 coal fired plants with plans to de-commission
>more. These are old very inefficient plants.

Then you are fortunate; you are working for a company that will likely survive, as older companies that rely purely on denial fail. Getting access to dirt-cheap renewables will let companies like yours out-compete their less intelligent competitors.

>Wind is not very popular in WI but it has some popularity here in IA. But it is
>getting less so all the time because of the noise and shadow flicker.

IA percentage of electrical energy that comes from wind:
2013: 27.5%
2014: 28.4%
2015: 31.3%
2016: 36.5%
2017: 43.8% (projected)

>And it seems that warming can only be shown with manipulated data.

Warming can be shown by thermometers - and has been. Deniers have to jump through incredible hoops to spin that instrumental data into "no warming." Such attempts to spin the data would be all but impossible, but deniers have learned from their attempts in the past to deny that smoking causes cancer and that CFC's harm the ozone layer. They're getting better at it.

Of course, you've been burned by this before. Do you remember "there's only one problem with global warming - it ended in 1998!" As the climate continues to warm, claims like that (and more contemporary ones like the one you posted) will look more and more desperate; an attempt to deny basic science to enrich the coal and oil companies and defeat the evil libs.

Yes
Data from instruments that is manipulated to get the desired result.

And I am sorry you think I got burned on the 1998 bs because I don't.
It was the title of the article in the Subject line but in any event, I am even more inclined to think it is correct.

Remember, I think the climate changes. It warms, it cools, it has more CO2 and it has had less CO2 than today.

A changing climate has NEVER been my argument!

The debate for me is always whether or not man has an impact on said change. Given all that I have seen there is very little chance IMO that man has an effect.

So change your names and re-categorize the topic to maintain confusion if you wish but my position is very very clear. Regardless of your twisting.

In the end the desperation is all yours.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 871]

Head back in the sand, as expected.

[billvon 3,090]

>There is no such thing as dirt cheap renewables at present.

>I don't care what they cost.

Fixed it for you.

>And I am sorry you think I got burned on the 1998 bs because I don't.
>It was the title of the article in the Subject line but in any event, I am even more inclined to think it is
>correct.

Classic. How do you reconcile your fantasies with the realities you see around you? I imagine it takes all the faith of a true believer in the religion of climate change denial to maintain your beliefs in the face of reality.

>So change your names and re-categorize the topic to maintain confusion if you wish but my position
>is very very clear. Regardless of your twisting. In the end the desperation is all yours.

Ah, the anger of the religious zealot comes through! Yes, I am a heretic in your religion, and I can live with that.

[kallend 2,117]

rushmc

So, the peer review process does not mean anything to you anymore then?

I have been a peer reviewer for science journals, and have had my own publications peer reviewed. Have you?

I firmly believe that you do NOT know anything of significance about the process.

Where did you earn your science PhD, anyway?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

Hi John,

Quote

Where did you earn your science PhD, anyway?

Now wait just a minute, he was in the Honor Society.

How dare you question his credentials.



Jerry Baumchen

[DJL 235]

Quote

No, I did not talk shit about anybody. I even prefaced the comment before hand.
If you go back and look at the context, I was doing to them what they do to me.

Funny how people do not like their own crap flipped back at them.

And of course renewables will hit the poor the hardest,
Renewables cost more. Period!

Those with money just absorb the cost increases and move on. The poor have to make life style change decisions

Except that the credentials you flung back were nearly impeccable, the ones from the author of this article are non-existent.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher