Utah man initially denied lung transplant over pot use dies

[billvon 3,120]

>Want your parachute rigger to do the same before, or as, he packs your reserve?
>Want dopers to have equal status to get transplants? Want marijuana
>smokers/consumers to be in the astronaut program? In nuclear submarines? In missile
>silos? In semi trucks going 75 mph on a two lane road? Flying your twin otter? Your
>surgeon?

Want your parachute rigger to smoke?
Want your parachute rigger to drink?
Want your parachute rigger to eat GMO foods?

Do you want drinkers as pilots, nuclear technicians, or semi drivers?

Do you do any of those things?

[dpreguy 14]

DUI's - convictions for alcohol offenses are specifically exempted
from the list of rigger applicant disqualifiers.

I doubt anyone who had multiple drug convictions, and revealed them, was ever issued a rigger license. The FAA considers a parachute rigger as an "Airman". I have no specific info about whether a rigger applicant or a pilot applicant with drug convictions (including marijuana convictions) would be issued an airman certificate. I guess the FAA can do as they please when they get the application. In the examiner course we were told that the applicant should consider the expense and effort to go through an O&P to be a futility, as the FAA won't issue them the certificate even if they pass. That is what we were told.

[rehmwa 2]

BIGUN

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/04/25/utah-man-initially-denied-lung-transplant-over-pot-use-dies-after-complications-family-says.html

Quite frankly, I'm not sure how I feel about this one and would like your views. On one hand... Is everyone who touched alcohol or THC in the past year off the transplant list and if so; are there really that many people who don't touch whatever magic list there is to be a viable candidate?

I'm a bit confused on this. I don't think the term "denied" is really the most truthful way to put it.

He was most likely prioritized after someone else that followed all the rules, which are designed to give higher priorities to people that have a more successful chance with the transplant.

There will always be more people that need a lung than there is a supply of lungs.


You read some of these comments and can get the impression that people think there was an huge inventory of excess lungs and this guys was denied one of them - or they'd rather throw one away than give him one......

I'm no more outraged about this than I would be if a liver transplant was reprioritized after the potential recipient decided to have a couple drinks the week prior. That liver just ends up going to someone that showed better prep.

I'd have pretty much the exact same response if the guy smoked tobacco too. You want a lung and you're putting smoke of any kind purposely in your body? Surely there's another person that also desperately wants to live that's trying harder and healthier to stay on track.

One has to acknowledge that this is less about lack of sympathy for this guy, but more about caring and sympathy for the person that ended up with the lung. But you won't see an article about how that person's life was saved.

Edit: I guess a lot of people made this point already. I just lost that with the ridiculous tangent the thead took. - the digressions in this thread are entertaining.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[BIGUN 1,489]

Your points are well-taken. And, if someone were on the transplant list and engaged in those behaviors while on the list, I'd be more callous. In this case, he was a healthy 20 year old. Contracted pneumonia, complications from the pneumonia put him on the transplant list, denied due to THC in his system. I don't smoke anything, but have had pneumonia and have a hard time thinking anyone could smoke while on the track of deterioration he was on.

In reviewing the article I posted, even those who engage in those behaviors are given a chance to cease for a period of time to demonstrate their level of commitment to the transplant taking.

From my perspective, this was a normal kid who had a catastrophic situation and while initially denied, did get a chance. I'd just hate to think that everything the average 20 year old does immediately leads to a death sentence in a similar situation.

Thanks for contributing.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DJL 235]

Quote

Some fail to realize that actions have consequences. The weak whine that "it is legal" or "it is medical" is of no consequence if have mja in your preemployment drug screen. You won't be hired. If you are already working and fail you will be fired. And, if you have a marijuana conviction you have disclose that in the 8610-2 parachute rigger application. No reason to enter into a rigger training program if you do, as this is a disqualifier. When you pass the Oral and Practical you must sign again, under penalty of perjury that you have no mja convictions. If you do, I am assuming you won't be issued a rigger rating from Oklahoma City/FAA. Social acceptance has no bearing on the transplant criteria, the employment world or the application for a government license to become a rigger. Although I don't have any references, I would assume you can't be a commercial airline pilot and test positive for mja. Is anyone advocating for all of these bars to be lifted? Want to fly in an airliner after observing your pilot smoking mja in the smoking lounge just before he gets into the pic seat? Yur airline pilot is eating a mja candy bar while flying? Want your parachute rigger to do the same before, or as, he packs your reserve? Want dopers to have equal status to get transplants? Want marijuana smokers/consumers to be in the astronaut program? In nuclear submarines? In missile silos? In semi trucks going 75 mph on a two lane road? Flying your twin otter? Your surgeon? The list goes on.
Consume away, legally - illegally - medically, whatever but don't expect the real world to give you an excuse or relieve you of the consequences.

Someone having THC in their bloodsteam for a drug test in which they're not supposed to have THC in their bloodstream doesn't equate to someone needing a life saving medical procedure. The penalty for one is not getting a job, the penalty for the other is death. Nobody has a issue understanding that insurance companies and hospitals have their polices and that's fine but we also understand that THC in your system doesn't mean you're a drug addict unworthy of medical treatment.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DougH 270]

dpreguy

Criteria is clear, concise and stated ahead of time. No dopers.

Sounds like it needs an upgrade to really cover their bases.

No adventure athletes, give it to the risk adverse.
No poor people, bad return on investment.
No people with infertility issues.
No people below X IQ.

He waited on this list like everyone else, while others who use legal substances have no barrier to entry outside of excessive alcohol use or smoking.

Medical policies should be based around medical research and reasons. If pot use made this guy more likely to reject the organ, or have complications with surgery then there would be a justification that I could make peace with.

The prohibition of marijuana is 100% political. That makes it a pretty bullshit reason to kick someone off a transplant list.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 3,120]

>Medical policies should be based around medical research and reasons.

Specifically, transplant policies should be based on outcome-based medical research and objective goals (i.e. populations that reject the organ the least, or populations in which transplants extend life the most, or populations that see the greatest improvement in quality of life.) "No stoners" is not a sufficient reason, partly because that term has no medical definition and partly because there's (as of yet) no medical evidence that any level of marijuana use is dangerous for transplant recipients.

[jakee 1,597]

Quote

Is anyone advocating for all of these bars to be lifted?

Yes.

Quote

Want to fly in an airliner after observing your pilot smoking mja in the smoking lounge just before he gets into the pic seat? Yur airline pilot is eating a mja candy bar while flying?

When people resort to such ludicrous strawmen I automatically assume that they already know their argument is bullshit.

But just so there's no doubt, this is your logic: "Do you demand that airline pilots are lifetime teetotallers? No? So you want your airline pilot chugging from a 40 while he taxis to the runway? Are you crazy?!!!?"

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 900]

I would give more preference to a pilot that smoked a joint last night over the one that consumed half a bottle of brown liquor.

[BartsDaddy 7]

normiss

I would give more preference to a pilot that smoked a joint last night over the one that consumed half a bottle of brown liquor.

Oh but if it is white liquor it is good? Racist.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[normiss 900]

Just a personal distaste for virgin liquor.

[riggerrob 643]

normiss

Do tobacco smokers get any screening or disqualifications?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, because tobacco smokers have poor blood flow (in bones) they get assigned a lower priority than non-smokers.

I can give you two examples. A long time ago, I watched a chain-smoking, freefall videographer break his heel landing in turbulent winds. Tandem instructors refused to jump that day.
His heel took many moths to heal. He told me that smokers heal slower because of reduced blood flow in their bones.

Fast forward to 2014, when my knee (dis-located during a plane crash 6 years earlier) started dis-locating when I knelt to pack. The best knee surgeon in town was reluctant to waste his time on a 57 year old patient, but mumbled repeatedly to himself "but you are not a smoker." Fortunately, I was healthier and fitter than many 57 year olds, so he talked himself into re-aligning my tibia.
However, he refused to repair my posterior cruciate ligament because it is a difficult operation close to nerve bundles and blood vessels.

Bottom line, when you are short of surgeons or donated lungs, etc. only patients with the highest chance of survival get the operation.