Russiagate

[billvon 3,114]

Quote

I'm not saying anonymous leaks are the devil. Just that they seem to instantly be given complete credibility at the moment - Look at the way Bill phrased his post:
"More evidence that Trump was actively trying to obstruct an investigation"

Those are powerful words.

But it's not evidence. Not yet. It's not been proven as fact.

It is evidence that speaks to whether he is actively trying to obstruct an investigation. The fact that he has (or has not) been obstructing the investigation is yet to be determined.

You might suspect your friend stole your rig. You might find his shoe print on the packing mat where your rig was; that is evidence. You might see him in the distance with a black rig that looks like yours; that is evidence. You might note that he is using the pullup cord that used to be in your rig; that is evidence. Those are also facts, because you observed them. That does not add up to the fact that your friend stole your rig, although it strongly suggests it. If it does go to court, that evidence will no doubt be part of the argument you use to support the claim that he stole your rig. The court will then rule on whether that is sufficient evidence.

Quote

It also bothers me that these 'whistleblowers' seem to go straight to media outlets rather than a legitimate avenue such as the Senate or FBI if they think a crime has been committed. That choice also makes me more skeptical.

It bothers me as well, because it speaks to an environment where they do not feel comfortable going to the FBI. It does not make me skeptical, because when the president himself retaliates against his enemies and threatens them with everything from firing to releasing tapes of their conversations - and when he replaces the head of the FBI when they refuse to do his bidding - it would be nuts to do it openly.

[DJL 235]

I'm waiting for Trump to intentionally leak absolute BS so that he can use it to attempt to disprove other leaks about him.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DanG 1]

Quote

It bothers me as well, because it speaks to an environment where they do not feel comfortable going to the FBI.

We have yet to see if the leakers are also going to the FBI. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that WaPo and NYT are getting the broad outlines while trusted agents at the FBI are getting the full details. Comey wasn't keeping detailed notes about his meetings with Trump because he thought it would fun.

Trump has done everything he can to shit on the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc. so I doubt there's much of a sense of personal loyalty there.

- Dan G

[billvon 3,114]

Quote

We have yet to see if the leakers are also going to the FBI. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that WaPo and NYT are getting the broad outlines while trusted agents at the FBI are getting the full details.

Good point.

[billvon 3,114]

>The media nose ring. . . .

"The press is the enemy. The establishment is the enemy. The professors are the enemy . . . write that on a blackboard 100 times and never forget it."

[DanG 1]

Don't forget that 2+2=5, if the Party says so.

- Dan G

[pchapman 279]

billvon

"The press is the enemy. The establishment is the enemy. The professors are the enemy . . . write that on a blackboard 100 times and never forget it."

Ah, Tricky Dick.

(I've been listening to a couple audio books related to Nixon lately, such as "One Man Against the World" -- a title which sums things up nicely. In the era of Trump, reading such stuff does have a strangely calming effect. Some exceptional events do have historical precedent. Clearly their personalities are very different, but with similarities in thought and action in certain cases.)

[rushmc 23]

DJL

"Describing a previously undisclosed high-level conversation between Washington and Moscow, John Brennan testified that in a phone conversation with the head of Russia’s domestic spy service he said that “American voters would be outraged by any Russian attempt to interfere in the election." "

Although apparently some would take Russia's side of the ordeal.

Quote

Brennan said during Tuesday's open hearing he did not know whether Trump’s campaign “colluded” with Russia but said he saw "information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation.”

Same old bullshit.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,114]

>Same old bullshit.

That was from FOX. Let's see what they left out:

===========
Former CIA Director Tells Lawmakers About 'Very Aggressive' Russian Election Meddling

May 23, 2017 9:57 AM ET
Brian Naylor 2010
NPR

Former CIA Director John Brennan told the House Intelligence Committee Tuesday that Russia "brazenly interfered in the 2016 election process," despite U.S. efforts to warn them off. Brennan testified in an open session of the committee, one of a handful of congressional committee now investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

Brennan said he told his Russian counterpart, the head of Russia's FSB, last August that if Russia pursued its efforts to interfere, "it would destroy any near-term prospect for improvement in relations" between the two countries. He said Russia denied any attempts to interfere.

In his opening statement, Brennan also recounted how he had briefed congressional leaders in August of last year, including House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., and the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees about the "full details" of what he knew of Russia's interference in the 2016 election. Brennan said he became convinced last summer that Russia was trying to interfere in the campaign, saying "they were very aggressive."

Brennan said he is "aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign." Brennan said that concerned him, "because of known Russian efforts to suborn such individuals," and that it raised questions about whether or not the Russians "were able to gain the cooperation of those individuals."
=====================

So we now have direct evidence of contact between Russian officials and the Trump campaign - and testimony that Ryan and McConnell were warned beforehand.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Same old bullshit.

That was from FOX. Let's see what they left out:

===========
Former CIA Director Tells Lawmakers About 'Very Aggressive' Russian Election Meddling

May 23, 2017 9:57 AM ET
Brian Naylor 2010
NPR

Former CIA Director John Brennan told the House Intelligence Committee Tuesday that Russia "brazenly interfered in the 2016 election process," despite U.S. efforts to warn them off. Brennan testified in an open session of the committee, one of a handful of congressional committee now investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

Brennan said he told his Russian counterpart, the head of Russia's FSB, last August that if Russia pursued its efforts to interfere, "it would destroy any near-term prospect for improvement in relations" between the two countries. He said Russia denied any attempts to interfere.

In his opening statement, Brennan also recounted how he had briefed congressional leaders in August of last year, including House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., and the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees about the "full details" of what he knew of Russia's interference in the 2016 election. Brennan said he became convinced last summer that Russia was trying to interfere in the campaign, saying "they were very aggressive."

Brennan said he is "aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign." Brennan said that concerned him, "because of known Russian efforts to suborn such individuals," and that it raised questions about whether or not the Russians "were able to gain the cooperation of those individuals."
=====================

So we now have direct evidence of contact between Russian officials and the Trump campaign - and testimony that Ryan and McConnell were warned beforehand.

I posted what was left out.

The panty wetting continues.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,114]

I suspect Trump's closest supporters are the ones wetting their pants about now - because they just might get dragged into this.

"James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!" - March 2017

[normiss 893]

Rush is in no way an American patriot, which he repeatedly proves here with his hatred for the US.
I'm surprisingly disappointed at those who now hate their own country, to the point of wanting them deported to Syria sometimes.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

I suspect Trump's closest supporters are the ones wetting their pants about now - because they just might get dragged into this.

"James Clapper and others stated that there is no evidence Potus colluded with Russia. This story is FAKE NEWS and everyone knows it!" - March 2017

I am waiting for evidence.

Everyone asked still says this is none but, "we need to get to the bottom of this".


New panties all around

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,114]

>I am waiting for evidence.

Official testimony of the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency that he was "aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign" is evidence, no matter how much you try to deny, deflect and distract from it.

[DJL 235]

rushmc

***"Describing a previously undisclosed high-level conversation between Washington and Moscow, John Brennan testified that in a phone conversation with the head of Russia’s domestic spy service he said that “American voters would be outraged by any Russian attempt to interfere in the election." "

Although apparently some would take Russia's side of the ordeal.

Quote

Brennan said during Tuesday's open hearing he did not know whether Trump’s campaign “colluded” with Russia but said he saw "information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation.”

Same old bullshit.

Are you confusing what "collusion" means? It's beyond fact that the Russians meddled in the election in an effort to help Trump but there is currently no evidence that any member of Trump's campaign was a willing member of it.

What is it that you're trying to disprove?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rushmc 23]

normiss

Rush is in no way an American patriot, which he repeatedly proves here with his hatred for the US.
I'm surprisingly disappointed at those who now hate their own country, to the point of wanting them deported to Syria sometimes.

If I hated this country I would stop arguing with you and those who agree with you.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>I am waiting for evidence.

Official testimony of the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency that he was "aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between Russian officials and U.S. persons involved in the Trump campaign" is evidence, no matter how much you try to deny, deflect and distract from it.

You left this part out.

Quote

Brennan said during Tuesday's open hearing he did not know whether Trump’s campaign “colluded” with Russia but said he saw "information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation.”

Same

Old

Bullshit

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

DJL

******"Describing a previously undisclosed high-level conversation between Washington and Moscow, John Brennan testified that in a phone conversation with the head of Russia’s domestic spy service he said that “American voters would be outraged by any Russian attempt to interfere in the election." "

Although apparently some would take Russia's side of the ordeal.

Quote

Brennan said during Tuesday's open hearing he did not know whether Trump’s campaign “colluded” with Russia but said he saw "information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation.”

Same old bullshit.

Are you confusing what "collusion" means? It's beyond fact that the Russians meddled in the election in an effort to help Trump but there is currently no evidence that any member of Trump's campaign was a willing member of it.

What is it that you're trying to disprove?

They meddled, yes

Did they have an effect? Most everyone says it made no difference.

Was Trump actively working with the Russian? No evidence to support that. None of any kind.



Hilary lost this election all by herself by being a sucky candidate.
Much more so the Trump.

Who is have a great trip by the way.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DJL 235]

Ok. So you don't think they should investigate the extent to which Russia attempted to meddled in our election? I'm trying to figure out why you're putting so much energy into this and calling everything bullshit?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 3,114]

>They meddled, yes

We're making progress, then! You finally admit that Russia did meddle in the election - and now we know the Russians were in contact with the Trump campaign. Now we just need to find out what the President knew and when he knew it.

>Who is have a great trip by the way.

Yep. Earlier today I predicted:

"After last week, expectations for Trump's trip were pretty low. As one reporter put it, as long as he doesn't leak the nuclear launch codes to the Syrians everyone will call it a big success."

Thank you for proving my point.

"Hey! He didn't do anything grossly incompetent or dangerous! He only admitted he released classified Israeli information to the Russians, bowed to a foreign king and made mistakes because he was 'exhausted.' But no nuclear wars! What a great trip."

We had much higher standards a year ago.

[normiss 893]

Sanity, logic, facts.

[billvon 3,114]

Quote

Ok. So you don't think they should investigate the extent to which Russia attempted to meddled in our election? I'm trying to figure out why you're putting so much energy into this and calling everything bullshit?

Because he knows this could take Trump down - and is doing everything he can to protect the object of his adoration.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>They meddled, yes

We're making progress, then! You finally admit that Russia did meddle in the election - and now we know the Russians were in contact with the Trump campaign. Now we just need to find out what the President knew and when he knew it.

>Who is have a great trip by the way.

Yep. Earlier today I predicted:

"After last week, expectations for Trump's trip were pretty low. As one reporter put it, as long as he doesn't leak the nuclear launch codes to the Syrians everyone will call it a big success."

Thank you for proving my point.

"Hey! He didn't do anything grossly incompetent or dangerous! He only admitted he released classified Israeli information to the Russians, bowed to a foreign king and made mistakes because he was 'exhausted.' But no nuclear wars! What a great trip."

We had much higher standards a year ago.

You really do have trouble keeping up don't you.

I never denied Russia tried to insert itself

It have been doing the same for decades.


Will you admit they had no effect on the outcome of this election?

The US medals in elections too.

Was is just two years ago the US spent money and sent people to Israel to try and out Netanyahu?

Does that bother you? Or are you just outraged one sidedly?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

Quote

Ok. So you don't think they should investigate the extent to which Russia attempted to meddled in our election? I'm trying to figure out why you're putting so much energy into this and calling everything bullshit?

Because he knows this could take Trump down - and is doing everything he can to protect the object of his adoration.

No

YOU HOPE this will take Trump down.

But even the Dems are backing away from that kind of silly talk these days......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Was is just two years ago the US spent money and sent people to Israel to try and out Netanyahu?

lol. From the guy who always wants to wait for evidence.

The senate sub-committee that looked into this could find no evidence to back up this claim.