Democrats Self Immolate

[brenthutch 444]

In response to pressure from their base, Democrats have abstained from committee attendance forcing Republicans to change committee rules. This will fast-track Trumps cabinet appointees to a full Senate vote. I predict the same thing will happen with Trump's Supreme Court nominee. Their intransigence will backfire and force Rs to employ the "Nuclear Option" clearing the way for a "fundamental transformation" of the Supreme Court.

[normiss 892]

I understood the rules were changed first, but anyway, how is this different from R's refusing to do their constitutionally sworn jobs?
Meet tit sir.

[brenthutch 444]

The rules for the full Senate were changed by the Dems (establishing a precedent), the rule change today was regarding committee hearings, reinforcing the precedent and making the "Nuclear Option" more likely.

To your point, no Obama nominee was going to be approved eight months prior to an election. The Republicans would have looked silly blocking the appointment of a highly qualified Justice, especially one they had approved of in the past. To avoid this they just never took up his nomination. That is just one of the advantages of being in the majority, you get to set the agenda.

[billvon 3,111]

>I understood the rules were changed first, but anyway, how is this different from
>R's refusing to do their constitutionally sworn jobs?

When R's do it, they are bravely standing by their principles and refusing to give in to damaging and dangerous agendas. They are true American heroes.

When D's do it, they are "self-immolating" and examples of failure.

What is this, your first day here?

[brenthutch 444]

Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

[billvon 3,111]

>Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful
>fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their
>base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

So they should not do what they think is right because they might lose.

I recall your support for the over 60 pointless attempts to repeal Obamacare under Obama.

[mirage62 0]

GOD I know better to even reply to Bill.....

But you have to be fucking kidding me.

Look the Dem's start with the nuclear option. (Picture a mean little kid on the play ground. He beats up another kid)

The other kid goes home and works out over the summer (picture a election)

Edit to add: Trump just suggested the nuclear option for his SC pick. This will drive the Dem's crazy, they are fixing to get a bloody nose for a fight they started. FWIW I wish they had NEVER put the nuclear option in play

Before anyone here says they had to for the obstructionist Rep...understand that's how the Rep feel now - and NEITHER side has the moral high ground

School starts and the first kid get's his ass kick by the other kid.

Now the first kid is saying it isn't fair.

Fair doesn't have shit to do with it. The Rep are going to put in the nuclear option for the S.C. and the Dem's will scream.

They picked the fight....there going to get their asses kicked. Right or wrong that's just the fucking way it will be.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[brenthutch 444]

billvon

>Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful
>fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their
>base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

So they should not do what they think is right because they might lose.

I recall your support for the over 60 pointless attempts to repeal Obamacare under Obama.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I guess it's true.

[DJL 235]

brenthutch

Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

Was thinking the same on my drive to work this morning. As if it's a surprise that Trump would pick a right leaning SCJ. You can guarantee that RBG is trying to stay healthy for another 4 years at least so I don't think she figures into it but they really do need to focus on how to get some specific wins.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[brenthutch 444]

That is what I ment by self immolation. There are ten Democratic Senators up for reelection in 2018 from states that Trump won. The base is demanding scorched earth and no compromise. That approach may work in California but not so well in Montana. If the Ds loose the red states, they will be completely irrelevant for at least an additional two years. Not good for our Democracy.

[nolhtairt 0]

Ginsburg needed to retire a few years ago. Plenty of pictures have been taken of her sitting with her fellow justices, slumped over and snoozing while the rest of them were sitting attentively.

https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1328&bih=922&q=Ginsburg+sleeping&oq=Ginsburg+sleeping&gs_l=img.3...1091.8681.0.10184.18.11.0.7.1.0.111.769.8j1.9.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..2.9.693.0..0j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1.zgKckjdT-nk

[normiss 892]

If refusing to do a job you swore an oath to do is considered "looking silly", we have much deeper issues.
You can't seriously support that can you?
Like shutting down the government because you refuse to do your job?
Like refusing to work on a budget because you refuse to do your job?

How long would you stay employed if you acted like a kindergartner when you disagreed with coworkers?

[brenthutch 444]

normiss

If refusing to do a job you swore an oath to do is considered "looking silly", we have much deeper issues.
You can't seriously support that can you?
Like shutting down the government because you refuse to do your job?
Like refusing to work on a budget because you refuse to do your job?

How long would you stay employed if you acted like a kindergartner when you disagreed with coworkers?

I'm not supporting that behavior, I am just explaining it. Both sides are guilty.

A better question would be: How long would you stay in kindergarten if you acted like a politician?

[Phil1111 1,173]

brenthutch

***>Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful
>fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their
>base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

So they should not do what they think is right because they might lose.

I recall your support for the over 60 pointless attempts to repeal Obamacare under Obama.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I guess it's true.

Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

In response to pressure from their base, Democrats have abstained from committee attendance forcing Republicans to change committee rules. This will fast-track Trumps cabinet appointees to a full Senate vote. I predict the same thing will happen with Trump's Supreme Court nominee. Their intransigence will backfire and force Rs to employ the "Nuclear Option" clearing the way for a "fundamental transformation" of the Supreme Court.

Not showing up is the wrong way to deal with it in my opinion. Go in, do your job and have your voiced and vote heard.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Instead of choosing their battles and keeping their powder dry for a meaningful
>fight, such as the possible replacement of RBG, they are being forced by their
>base to mount hopeless kamikaze attacks, expending political capital for no gain.

Quote

So they should not do what they think is right because they might lose.

when republicans do this you called them the party of no

I recall your support for the over 60 pointless attempts to repeal Obamacare under Obama

It is going to get done this time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,111]

>There are ten Democratic Senators up for reelection in 2018 from states that
>Trump won. The base is demanding scorched earth and no compromise. That
>approach may work in California but not so well in Montana.

I think it will work quite well. Trump had the lowest approval ratings in recent history when he started, and they are still dropping. By the next midterms, "I fought Trump with everything I had" is going to appeal to more people than "I rolled over."

[brenthutch 444]

We are talking Senate seats in red states where Trump won, national polls are meaningless. "I obstructed Trump with everything I had" might not have a nice ring to it in Montana where Trump won by more than 20%.

[DanG 1]

You're assuming people will just as enthusiastic about Trump in two years. You're also assuming the anti-Hillary crowd is still going to vote GOP.

- Dan G

[brenthutch 444]

Of course that depends on performance, and it looks like he is off to a good start.

"Job creation numbers flew in well above expectations in January and hit their highest level since June, according to the latest ADP National Employment Report published Wednesday."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-02-01/manufacturing-and-mining-rebound-as-economy-generates-246-000-january-jobs

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

Of course that depends on performance, and it looks like he is off to a good start.

"Job creation numbers flew in well above expectations in January and hit their highest level since June, according to the latest ADP National Employment Report published Wednesday."

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-02-01/manufacturing-and-mining-rebound-as-economy-generates-246-000-january-jobs

Timing wise pretty hard to argue that is Trump's doing. Pretty easy to argue that one still belongs to Obama. But there will be many more reports to come for Trump to hang his hat on...

[DanG 1]

Quote

Of course that depends on performance, and it looks like he is off to a good start.

I hope that R next to his name doesn't cloud your thinking so much that you believe Trump had anything to do with job creation in January.

We'll see how his performance looks to the rust belt people in two years when the manufacturing and mining jobs still haven't come back.

- Dan G

[brenthutch 444]

In economics psychology trumps policy. The Great Recession kicked into high gear when it became apparent that Barack spread-the-wealth-around Obama could be our next president. The market skyrocketed 1000 points after Trump won. My economics professors did not like it when I said it in business school but economics is just social studies with math.

[headoverheels 334]

brenthutch

In economics psychology trumps policy. The Great Recession kicked into high gear when it became apparent that Barack spread-the-wealth-around Obama could be our next president. The market skyrocketed 1000 points after Trump won. My economics professors did not like it when I said it in business school but economics is just social studies with math.

The market tripled under Obama. I'll be happy to see a 25% rise under Trump.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

brenthutch

In economics psychology trumps policy. The Great Recession kicked into high gear when it became apparent that Barack spread-the-wealth-around Obama could be our next president. The market skyrocketed 1000 points after Trump won. My economics professors did not like it when I said it in business school but economics is just social studies with math.

Market is much more reactionary than job creation. Few companies would start hiring staff based on what might be the result of Trump's policies. In other words, it is a lagging indicator.

The markets did jump with Trump's election. part of the reason they have stayed up is that earnings have been generally positive.

Like I said, too early to pin this on Trump.