Morons and Their Flags

[skycop 0]

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In a very perverse way, flag burning is one of the things that makes America great.

Well said, unfortunately it's not illegal to be a tool in the USA.
If it was, I'd have filled the jails a long time ago, and that's just after directing traffic for an hour..............;)

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[billvon 3,132]

>Sure, if you can get a jury that consists of Californians.

Hey, he had a right to Stand His Ground.

[billvon 3,132]

>Most media outlets have no idea what to do, they've been catered to for so long.
>Trump changed the rules, and this is sorely needed IMHO.

I agree that the media outlets are floundering and trying to make sense of what is basically nonsense. But Trump isn't issuing press releases to media that have them in a tizzy - Trump is tweeting directly to people.

I see a lot of "way to go Trump! Those asshole media types are in an uproar; glad to see you are screwing them over! We need more of this" type sentiments lately. Replace "media types" with "people he is tweeting" and it's closer to accurate.

[billvon 3,132]

>I'm so fed up of the pedestal that people like you put your military on.

I do something similar. Not put them on a pedestal, but definitely show respect for their willingness to risk their lives in the protection of others.

>but no more so than police officers or EMTs

Or firefighters, right. Anyone who risks their life for others.

And yes, you would be showing as much disrespect for a firefighter by burning the flag they use for their department. Or by burning a policeman in effigy.

Are those protected as well? Yes. But (IMO) you better have a very, very good reason to do something like that - because the result is that you are expressing that you detest them and what they stand for.

> And they shouldn't expect that treatment more than anyone else who keeps
>society that they're 'defending' running or any other of a multitude of professions
>that contributes to society. Being in the military does not make one inherently
>more deserving of respect than everyone else.

Being in the military (or being a firefighter) _does_ make you more deserving of respect in my book - all other things being equal. Lots of people go through life contributing nothing to society - they just show up, work at whatever job makes them the most money, go home and watch TV. And they contribute to the economy and that's it. Soldiers/firefighters/police do more than that, and make a bigger difference.

That doesn't mean that the above is always true, of course. Neil Degrasse Tyson has my respect because of all the effort he puts into science education, even though he was never in the military (or fire department etc.) Several soldiers I worked with in Sacramento do not have my respect because they were pretty miserable human beings. And there are plenty of other examples of US soldiers no one should respect.

But for someone willing to put their life on the line for others - I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

billvon

I do something similar. Not put them on a pedestal, but definitely show respect for their willingness to risk their lives in the protection of others...

...Being in the military (or being a firefighter) _does_ make you more deserving of respect in my book - all other things being equal. Lots of people go through life contributing nothing to society - they just show up, work at whatever job makes them the most money, go home and watch TV. And they contribute to the economy and that's it. Soldiers/firefighters/police do more than that, and make a bigger difference...

Something to remember is that soldiers, firefighters, EMTs and police often make a lot less than many professions.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

What a load of crap. When was your sovereignty in danger in the last 100 years or so?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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But for someone willing to put their life on the line for others - I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Probably should respect construction workers significantly more than Police or Fire then.

[billvon 3,132]

>Probably should respect construction workers significantly more than Police or Fire then.

If there are construction workers out there who regularly put themselves in the way of danger to save other people's lives - then they would have my respect as well. From my experience, though, they put themselves in danger to make money and to build stuff.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

What a load of crap. When was your sovereignty in danger in the last 100 years or so?

WHOOSH

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If there are construction workers out there who regularly put themselves in the way of danger to save other people's lives - then they would have my respect as well. From my experience, though, they put themselves in danger to make money and to build stuff.

And the stuff they build saves other people's lives.

Hospitals, bridges, homes, shelters, stores etc.

Their job is significantly riskier to do that than the job of a police officers.

And I highly doubt most police officers and firefighters chose the job to save lives.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

What a load of crap. When was your sovereignty in danger in the last 100 years or so?

WHOOSH

I'll rephrase it for the toddler in the room.

When in the last 100 years or so was the US not invaded due to their military might?

[yoink 321]

Fishermen, too. And loggers as well. Farmers and Ranchers at #4....

In fact according to Forbes you have to go all the way to #10 before you come across police officers in terms of the most dangerous jobs out there.


I'm not saying that people in the military don't deserve respect. They absolutely do. But there are a lot of other people who risk their lives for things a lot less noble than 'defending the constitution' who don't get the same level of respect service members do. How often have you thanked a fisherman?...

Dangerous jobs that contribute to society are ALL worthy of respect and thanks. But not one more than another. People who contribute to society without risking themselves should also be respected but I agree they're a tier down... I wouldn't demand the same level of thanks and respect for my job, for example.

People who don't contribute are worthy of neither.

That's what 'society' is.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

******

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

What a load of crap. When was your sovereignty in danger in the last 100 years or so?

WHOOSH

I'll rephrase it for the toddler in the room.

When in the last 100 years or so was the US not invaded due to their military might?

WHOOSH

So now that you admit you are in the room

It does not take a military invasion to lose sovereignty.

You so limit yourself in your lack of thinking......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

yoink

Fishermen, too. And loggers as well. Farmers and Ranchers at #4....

In fact according to Forbes you have to go all the way to #10 before you come across police officers in terms of the most dangerous jobs out there.


I'm not saying that people in the military don't deserve respect. They absolutely do. But there are a lot of other people who risk their lives for things a lot less noble than 'defending the constitution' who don't get the same level of respect service members do. How often have you thanked a fisherman?...

Dangerous jobs that contribute to society are ALL worthy of respect and thanks. But not one more than another. People who contribute to society are should also be respected but I agree they're a tier down... I wouldn't demand the same level of thanks and respect for my job, for example.

People who don't contribute are worthy of neither.

That's what 'society' is.

I disagree with that premise. Society is one big wheel and all the different components are spokes in that wheel. Take a spoke or two out and the wheel collapses.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It does not take a military invasion to lose sovereignty.

No, how else is the US going to lose its sovereignty and how is that prevented from happening by your military?

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

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It does not take a military invasion to lose sovereignty.

No, how else is the US going to lose its sovereignty and how is that prevented from happening by your military?

First off you are still limiting your thinking
He never, and I never said anything about military.

Only YOU did.

Second, a country without controlled borders is by definition, not a sovereign county.


There are many people in fly over country that would die for this county and that has nothing to do with anything military.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Here is the whole sentence he wrote:

"There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country. It is their efforts that allows assholes like you to burn flags. The next time you see someone in a uniform, get your shit together and say thank you"


If you want to include police and firefighters in my question, go for it. But, he clearly wasn't talking about somebody not in uniform.

[billvon 3,132]

>And the stuff they build saves other people's lives.

Sure. And the DMV worker who hassles you about your registration is helping save lives by keeping unsafe wrecks off the street. And the accountant who does your taxes might save your life by reducing your stress. And your plumber might help save your life by preventing e.coli infections.

None of the above involve people who are willing to put themselves at personal danger (i.e. people trying to kill them, a fire that is "trying" to do the same) to save your life when it is in imminent danger. Which is why I tend to hold soldiers (and people like them) higher in my estimation.

That's just me. You can hold everyone high in your estimation. Heck, the world would probably be a better place if you did.

>And I highly doubt most police officers and firefighters chose the job to save lives.

A great many I have met chose it for that reason. But again, you are free to have any level of respect for them you like.

[rushmc 23]

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

And here is the quote YOU used in your reply.

And fire fighters and police wear uniforms here.
As do BORDER PATROL AGENTS!!!

How about up North?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>And the stuff they build saves other people's lives.

Sure. And the DMV worker who hassles you about your registration is helping save lives by keeping unsafe wrecks off the street. And the accountant who does your taxes might save your life by reducing your stress. And your plumber might help save your life by preventing e.coli infections.

None of the above involve people who are willing to put themselves at personal danger (i.e. people trying to kill them, a fire that is "trying" to do the same) to save your life when it is in imminent danger. Which is why I tend to hold soldiers (and people like them) higher in my estimation.

That's just me. You can hold everyone high in your estimation. Heck, the world would probably be a better place if you did.

>And I highly doubt most police officers and firefighters chose the job to save lives.

A great many I have met chose it for that reason. But again, you are free to have any level of respect for them you like.

I know we have big differences on many subjects Bill.

But you are right on the money in these series of posts.
Nicely stated sir!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

Circles with you, never answer a question. I am done with you.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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None of the above involve people who are willing to put themselves at personal danger (i.e. people trying to kill them, a fire that is "trying" to do the same) to save your life when it is in imminent danger.

That's a very narrow view.

There are many jobs much more dangerous than police and firefighters. Only respecting those whose job it is when immediate help is required is too narrow a view for me.

And I have known enough cops who made sure they wouldn't arrive at a fire or accident until other people had arrived to place serious doubt with your assertion to begin with. But that isn't really part of this conversation.

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Heck, the world would probably be a better place if you did

Not really. The world would be a better place if most people were to do this, not just me.

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A great many I have met chose it for that reason

Really? Unless you have met a lot of voluntary firefighters, I doubt many of them would continue to do their job if they were not going to get paid.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

***

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There are lots of people, mainly in "fly over country", that have that value, and live it, die for it, and it's because of their efforts the US continues to be a sovereign country

Circles with you, never answer a question. I am done with you.

A question???

Bye!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

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And I have known enough cops who made sure they wouldn't arrive at a fire or accident until other people had arrived to place serious doubt with your assertion to begin with.

If that was their attitude, then they were in the wrong line of work. Bill stated that not all people in uniform are worthy of respect, but he gives them the benefit of the doubt. Your friends probably wouldn't keep that respect for long.

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Unless you have met a lot of voluntary firefighters, I doubt many of them would continue to do their job if they were not going to get paid.

In many parts of our country firefighters and paramedics are volunteers. I doubt they do it for the free t-shirts.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,611]

billvon

And yes, you would be showing as much disrespect for a firefighter by burning the flag they use for their department. Or by burning a policeman in effigy.

Terrible analogy. The US flag is equally the flag of the firefighters as the soldier's, so you show as much disrespect to the firefighters by burning the US flag.

On the flip side, you would show as much disrespect to soldiers as you do to firefighters by burning their department's flag... by burning their unit's insignia, not by burning the US flag.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?