Soilders having to return bonuses

[jclalor 12]

Obama needs to make this right and return all money that's been payed back.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/23/499065155/u-s-soldiers-told-to-repay-thousands-in-signing-bonuses-from-height-of-war-effor

[yoink 321]

It took a lot of clicking through links to get any information on WHY this is happening.

Every story is full of the hardships faced by soldiers, but that isn't particularly useful in understanding what actually happened. It's just an emotional appeal.


As far as I can see there was no oversight in assigning these bonuses due to the urgent need and recruiters took full advantage of that. (Did recruiters get bonuses for hitting certain targets?)
If that's the case then I agree - the government needs to suck it up, return the refunded monies and if procedures did exist at the time that were being broken charge the people in charge for not abiding by them.

[billvon 3,132]

>As far as I can see there was no oversight in assigning these bonuses due to the
>urgent need and recruiters took full advantage of that.

It's worse than that. A military official filed over $15 million in false/invalid re-enlistment bonuses and college loans for veterans for the California National Guard. She pled guilty to fraud and is now in prison - and now the military is trying to get those loans and bonuses back. There's a procedure where veterans can ask that the repayment be waived, but few are taking advantage of that.

Simplest solution is to make all the affected veterans aware that there is a way to waive repayment, and then to get a commitment from the Pentagon that all appeals for the fraudulent bonuses and loans will be granted.

[Elisha 1]

billvon

>As far as I can see there was no oversight in assigning these bonuses due to the
>urgent need and recruiters took full advantage of that.

It's worse than that. A military official filed over $15 million in false/invalid re-enlistment bonuses and college loans for veterans for the California National Guard. She pled guilty to fraud and is now in prison - and now the military is trying to get those loans and bonuses back. There's a procedure where veterans can ask that the repayment be waived, but few are taking advantage of that.

Simplest solution is to make all the affected veterans aware that there is a way to waive repayment, and then to get a commitment from the Pentagon that all appeals for the fraudulent bonuses and loans will be granted.

It will be great if it is this simple.

Asking soldiers to repay "fraudulent" bonuses/loans 10 years later when they counted on this money and life circumstances have completely changed is a**hattery at its finest.

[skycop 0]

Uncle Sugar screwing up military pay?
Say it ain't so............

I had a buddy who's paycheck was 10 bucks one pay period, they had overpaid him his last check. Did they spread the repayment out? Nope, the bean-counters didn't care.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rehmwa 2]

Heads will roll - they'll likely get reassigned to the health care department

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,465]

skycop

Uncle Sugar screwing up military pay?
Say it ain't so............

I had a buddy who's paycheck was 10 bucks one pay period, they had overpaid him his last check. Did they spread the repayment out? Nope, the bean-counters didn't care.

Why would they though? He got an advance on his paycheque, why would he need time for repayment? He isn't repaying anything, he got his money early.

[JerryBaumchen 1,473]

Hi jclalor,

Quote

Obama needs to make this right

Actually, I think it is the job of Congress, not the POTUS.

And, I agree, this one needs a course correction.

Jerry Baumchen

[grimmie 186]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/10/25/congress-knew-2-years-efforts-take-back-veteran-bonuses.html

Pelosi is asking congress to waive this. But a lot of troops have paid it back already. What a mess.

[DJL 235]

billvon

>As far as I can see there was no oversight in assigning these bonuses due to the
>urgent need and recruiters took full advantage of that.

It's worse than that. A military official filed over $15 million in false/invalid re-enlistment bonuses and college loans for veterans for the California National Guard. She pled guilty to fraud and is now in prison - and now the military is trying to get those loans and bonuses back. There's a procedure where veterans can ask that the repayment be waived, but few are taking advantage of that.

Simplest solution is to make all the affected veterans aware that there is a way to waive repayment, and then to get a commitment from the Pentagon that all appeals for the fraudulent bonuses and loans will be granted.

Yeah, the E-8 who did the dirty workgot flogged and a couple of officers got their wrists slapped. They make it sound like there wasn't anyone else in the command structure overseeing these bonuses and then fucked over all of the solders.

Dulce et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[SivaGanesha 2]

jclalor

Obama needs to make this right and return all money that's been payed back.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/23/499065155/u-s-soldiers-told-to-repay-thousands-in-signing-bonuses-from-height-of-war-effor

I usually don't get involved in discussions of the military since I've never served...but... I totally agree with you. These people accepted their bonuses and served in good faith and it is absolutely wrong to make them repay it all these years later. I would hope there would be bipartisan agreement on this among Congress, the president, and presidential candidates on this.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Bolas 5]

SivaGanesha

***Obama needs to make this right and return all money that's been payed back.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/23/499065155/u-s-soldiers-told-to-repay-thousands-in-signing-bonuses-from-height-of-war-effor

I usually don't get involved in discussions of the military since I've never served...but... I totally agree with you. These people accepted their bonuses and served in good faith and it is absolutely wrong to make them repay it all these years later. I would hope there would be bipartisan agreement on this among Congress, the president, and presidential candidates on this.

Don't hold your breath. Look at the screwing over of 9/11 first responders. Granted, they were not promised anything in advance, just did what was right.

This is sadly just the next step.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,132]

Quote

Don't hold your breath. Look at the screwing over of 9/11 first responders. Granted, they were not promised anything in advance, just did what was right.

This is sadly just the next step.

Geez, even I could have held my breath that long:

==========
Carter suspends bonus clawbacks California National Guard members

By Michael K Callahan, CNN
Updated 11:06 AM ET, Wed October 26, 2016

Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said Wednesday he is suspending "all efforts to collect reimbursement" from improperly awarded enlistment bonuses given to some member of the California National Guard . . .

"I have ordered the Defense Finance and Accounting Service to suspend all efforts to collect reimbursement from affected California National Guard members, effective as soon as is practical," Carter said in a statement, adding this suspension will continue until "I am satisfied that our process is working effectively."
===========

[jclalor 12]

JerryBaumchen

Hi jclalor,

Quote

Obama needs to make this right

Actually, I think it is the job of Congress, not the POTUS.

And, I agree, this one needs a course correction.

Jerry Baumchen

I just heard Ash Carted has suspended all collections.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/carter-suspend-bonus-payment-collections_us_5810bfdfe4b001e247df7e17

[ryoder 1,590]

jclalor

***Hi jclalor,

Quote

Obama needs to make this right

Actually, I think it is the job of Congress, not the POTUS.

And, I agree, this one needs a course correction.

Jerry Baumchen

I just heard Ash Carted has suspended all collections.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/carter-suspend-bonus-payment-collections_us_5810bfdfe4b001e247df7e17

That is a good start;
Now how about giving it back to the people who already repaid it by taking out 2nd mortgages?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DJL 235]

Amen. Give it back. There are a bunch of people out there who lost their shit because they did what they thought was right and payed Uncle Sam.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Rick 67]

getting the bonus may have been the clincher in convincing some to reenlist

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[DJL 235]

Without a doubt. $15G to re-up? No brainer.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[JerryBaumchen 1,473]

Hi DJL,

Quote

No brainer.

That reminds me of this guy who re-upped when I was stationed at Edwards AFB back in the early 60's.

He had gotten out, couldn't find work, so decided to re-up. He was an E-3 & got about $400 for a 2nd 4-yr hitch. He got his money and him & about 3 other guys decide to go into LA for the weekend. They ended up west of Oxnard, dead broke & had to hitch-hike back to the base.

Priceless.

Jerry Baumchen

[Bolas 5]

billvon

Quote

Don't hold your breath. Look at the screwing over of 9/11 first responders. Granted, they were not promised anything in advance, just did what was right.

This is sadly just the next step.

Geez, even I could have held my breath that long:

==========
Carter suspends bonus clawbacks California National Guard members

By Michael K Callahan, CNN
Updated 11:06 AM ET, Wed October 26, 2016

Secretary of Defense Ash Carter said Wednesday he is suspending "all efforts to collect reimbursement" from improperly awarded enlistment bonuses given to some member of the California National Guard . . .

"I have ordered the Defense Finance and Accounting Service to suspend all efforts to collect reimbursement from affected California National Guard members, effective as soon as is practical," Carter said in a statement, adding this suspension will continue until "I am satisfied that our process is working effectively."
===========

Don't exhale yet...

California only. Suspension of collection only, no start date but apparently collections will resume. No mention of returning the money to those who already paid.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[normiss 906]

Hey Jerry,

In 1984 when I got out of the Navy, the re-enlistment bonus for my rating was $16,000 - or about $12,500 after taxes.
As I recall, you signed a contract with them about that money and the terms of re-enlisting.

[JerryBaumchen 1,473]

Hi Mark,

Quote

the re-enlistment bonus

One of my best friends* from my military days had a brother-in-law who was a Loadmaster in the Air Force. He re-up for another 4 yrs. About a year later, he was kicking jeeps out of the back of an airplane and decided it would be fun to sit in one on the way down; so he jumped in the jeep seat. He got court-martialed out of the service. The next year ( and for a few more ), Uncle Sammy grabbed his IRS refund to get their re-up bonus back.

These things are priceless.

Jerry Baumchen

* 55 yrs later we are still good friends & see each other about every year or so.

[billvon 3,132]

>California only.

Uh, right . . . California is where the clawbacks were happening.

[Bolas 5]

normiss

Hey Jerry,

In 1984 when I got out of the Navy, the re-enlistment bonus for my rating was $16,000 - or about $12,500 after taxes.
As I recall, you signed a contract with them about that money and the terms of re-enlisting.

Why is a federal government branch having bonuses they give out taxed? Talk about giving with one hand then taking with the other.

Making them tax exempt but smaller would be far more efficient and cost effective.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>California only.

Uh, right . . . California is where the clawbacks were happening.

Happening currently you mean.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-national-guard-bonus-20161020-snap-story.html

Quote

The National Guard Bureau, the Pentagon agency that oversees state Guard organizations, has acknowledged that bonus overpayments occurred in every state at the height of the two wars.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.