Another 3 shootings? Just the cost of gun ownership...

[yoink 321]

Maybe I missed the threads in here but

Sept 8th: Man in care home kills 3 over poker gambling. - Perpetrator kills himself before arrest.

Sept 24th: Burlington - 5 dead after shooting in mall. Suspect now apprehended.

Sept 26th: Gunman opens fire at mall in Houston Gunman shot by police.


There is a sickness in America. These types of shootings are so frequent that sometimes they don't even make the news anymore, and there's absolutely no point in discussing them in forums like this...

[normiss 860]

Good Monday to you as well.
Unless you're one of the ones that gets shot today anyway.

[normiss 860]

Cop shooting in progress

ETA:
Apparently the windshield wiper wasn't so threatening after all...they sent a fat cop to bum rush him and fall on him while they distracted him.
#whiteprivilege

[Hooknswoop 19]

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

[DJL 235]

It's that damn rap music and video games, ummm, I mean it's people with mental health issues....errr....I mean it's Islam. Sorry, lost track of what the latest fad is to blame the hordes of gun deaths on.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

Hooknswoop

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The fact that you say that sarcastically proves my point.

[gowlerk 2,253]

yoink

***We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The fact that you say that sarcastically proves my point.

Buy more guns and ammo. make sure everyone you love is carrying. You owe it to them to ensure their safety.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[normiss 860]

You forgot the /s at the end.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The fact that you say that sarcastically proves my point.

No one has suggested anything that would 1. Have a meaningful impact on gun related fatalities AND, 2. Not unreasonably limit the 2nd amendment rights of citizens.

I am tired of the rallying cry, "We must do something!"

How many do you know have been killed with a gun? How many people do you know have died skydiving? BASE jumping, driving, biking, on a motorcycle?

Cell phone makers could save lives by preventing phones from receiving texts, emails, or phone calls when the phone is moving in a vehicle. But they don't and distracted driving related fatalities are on the rise. Think about that for a minute.

Do you want to save lives or ban guns?

Derek V

[nolhtairt 0]

Hooknswoop

Quote

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The fact that you say that sarcastically proves my point.

No one has suggested anything that would 1. Have a meaningful impact on gun related fatalities AND, 2. Not unreasonably limit the 2nd amendment rights of citizens.

I am tired of the rallying cry, "We must do something!"

How many do you know have been killed with a gun? How many people do you know have died skydiving? BASE jumping, driving, biking, on a motorcycle?

Cell phone makers could save lives by preventing phones from receiving texts, emails, or phone calls when the phone is moving in a vehicle. But they don't and distracted driving related fatalities are on the rise. Think about that for a minute.

Do you want to save lives or ban guns?

Derek V

I've known way more friends that have died skydiving than any other cause of accidental or criminal death. BAN SKYDIVING!!!

[yoink 321]

Hooknswoop

Quote

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The fact that you say that sarcastically proves my point.

No one has suggested anything that would 1. Have a meaningful impact on gun related fatalities AND, 2. Not unreasonably limit the 2nd amendment rights of citizens.

I am tired of the rallying cry, "We must do something!"

How many do you know have been killed with a gun? How many people do you know have died skydiving? BASE jumping, driving, biking, on a motorcycle?

Cell phone makers could save lives by preventing phones from receiving texts, emails, or phone calls when the phone is moving in a vehicle. But they don't and distracted driving related fatalities are on the rise. Think about that for a minute.

Do you want to save lives or ban guns?

Derek V

Don't play that game with me. I'm not biting.

It's not a case of doing one or the other. If there are problems with cars killing people then that should be addressed (and it is being with better brakes, seatbelts, airbags, stricter laws etc.It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing). If there are problems with phones killing people, that should be addressed also.

The issue here is that you INSTANTLY went to the 'ban guns' position. Nobody in here other than you has mentioned the idea. I don't think banning guns will work. But that doesn't mean that something can't be done.

Also, please define 'meaningful' impact so that we could have a more empathic discussion. To me, 'meaningful' would be reducing the liklihood of mass shootings, even by 1. I suspect to you that 'meaningful' is an all-or-nothing thing - we have to fix everything in 1 step or don't even try.


It's sad that you're tired of the rallying cry... That's a pity because that's the ONLY way anything can start. It's like any mental illness - the first step is admitting that there is a problem, and if pro-gun rights people could do that then we'd have an avenue for progress. And I'm not talking about the problem of banning guns. I'm talking about America admitting that there is a problem with dozens of mass shootings occurring per year.

Until that happens there is no chance of even talking about a reasonable compromise. Whatever that might be.

The danger of becoming desensitized to these events is a real issue in my mind.

[kallend 2,112]

Hooknswoop

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

The Houston perp was a lawyer.

Let's profile lawyers. Nasty scummy things anyway.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 235]

Hooknswoop

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

Ah yes. I, for one, offer my hopes and prayers.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Coreeece 2]

DJL

It's that damn rap music and video games, ummm, I mean it's people with mental health issues....errr....I mean it's Islam. Sorry, lost track of what the latest fad is to blame the hordes of gun deaths on.

You can always blame responsible gun owners like normiss and their lust for toys of war.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

yoink

I don't think banning guns will work. But that doesn't mean that something can't be done.

Something is being done. We've nearly cut the gun homicide rate in half despite having almost doubled the amount of guns in country within the last 20 years.

This has been accomplished through decades of research and study that suggests better parenting and education that addresses this country's violent culture.

With the further implementation of more refined programs and strict gun laws against domestic violence offenders, I would expect continued results.

...but that doesn't leave you with much room for your incessant bitching - where's the fun in that?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

yoink

These types of shootings are so frequent that sometimes they don't even make the news anymore

Ya, typically we just bitch and moan about the white suburban mass shootings. Apparently nobody gives a shit about the inner city black mass shootings - those are just common place and make blacks look bad - we can't have that.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[councilman24 37]

yoink

It's sad that you're tired of the rallying cry... That's a pity because that's the ONLY way anything can start. It's like any mental illness - the first step is admitting that there is a problem, and if pro-gun rights people could do that then we'd have an avenue for progress. And I'm not talking about the problem of banning guns. I'm talking about America admitting that there is a problem with dozens of mass shootings occurring per year.

Until that happens there is no chance of even talking about a reasonable compromise. Whatever that might be.

The danger of becoming desensitized to these events is a real issue in my mind.

Okay, what is a reasonabke compromise? I've been rehearsing this argument for weeks. Unless you get to confiscation, what will work? We have a 100 year supply of guns, ammo and magazines. Most of the guns used have been legally ourchased. What would you change in legal purchase process? 10 rd magazines just mean a shooter has to reload twice instead of once, or buy any preexisting magazine. The 94 ban just made ar 15s popular. I can only think of three manufacturers pre ban. Post ban, dozens and dozens and dozens. And a mini 14, I think used in one of this weekends shootings, described as a Ruger hunting type rifle with a 25 round magazine (maybe 10/22) not close to being banned and just as deadly.

Give me one new law that will help short of confiscation and I'll support it. I might even support confiscation if I thought that would work. But you would have armed insurrection and there is little doubt that would require a constitutional amendment.
Unless you can snap your fingers and disappear 95% of the guns in America and when mothers give weapons to teenagers what do you do?

Truely what would you do?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Coreeece 2]

councilman24

Okay, what is a reasonabke compromise? I've been rehearsing this argument for weeks. Unless you get to confiscation, what will work?

They've already admitted that it would still take 30+ years to see results from an outright ban on guns - and that it may even get worse before it got better.

When you bring them to the realization of the progress that we've already made in less than a generation, it gets all quiet and whispers.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[yoink 321]

councilman24

Okay, what is a reasonabke compromise? I've been rehearsing this argument for weeks. Unless you get to confiscation, what will work?

Truely what would you do?

I don't know.

It's going to take something we haven't thought of yet, but like you I'm convinced that banning everything not only isn't the answer, but would actually make things worse. It's also going to take decades, if not centuries; There is no quick fix. And human existence being what it is, we're always bad at planning for that type of timescale.
There are so many guns in circulation that any measures would have to wait for the current generations to phase out, either by being lost, broken or turned in.

At the moment I think people are too focused on what the specific solution is and looking for something they can implement in a particular election cycle, but that's not how ideas work - building a consensus that something should be done has to come first, slowly and carefully; Because even if a perfect solution was found, without that consensus nothing would ever be put in place.

For me it's not inconceivable that if a need is identified some sort of as-yet unimplemented limiting technology could be developed - Maybe something like a base-station technology where guns are registered to a certain address and can only be fired in a radius of that location. You can protect you and yours, but you can't go and shoot up the local school...
(before people jump in with the 'BUTs', this is just an example of a concept).


All of that - the developing of a consensus, believing a new technology can be invented to fit the needs, that I can imagine. The bit I really struggle with is the idea that a large number of gun owners would see ANY compromise as equivalent to a total ban, and would respond with outright rejection. Any compromise is total capitulation... and that I don't know how to remedy.

[Coreeece 2]

yoink

At the moment I think people are too focused on what the specific solution is and looking for something they can implement in a particular election cycle

Nah, they're just using this as a devise issue to sway public opinion and gain votes. When the election is over this will all be swept aside from the media's eyes - but thankfully, behind the scenes, we have people working together that actually care and have helped cut the gun homicide rate in half despite nearly doubling the amount of guns owed in this country.

This progress is not dependent on you nor all the bullshit spewed in this forum and throughout the web - thank God.

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Hooknswoop

We should do something!!!!!!!!

Derek V

Yup build a wall and not let anybody out and make American pay for it.

[kallend 2,112]

Coreeece

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

***

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

Ya, it addresses that 30% as well - what a concept, eh?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 2,112]

Coreeece

******

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

Ya, it addresses that 30% as well - what a concept, eh?

So your 40% - 60% was UNTRUE, wasn't it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreeece 2]

kallend

*********

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

Ya, it addresses that 30% as well - what a concept, eh?

So your 40% - 60% was UNTRUE, wasn't it?

I'm not really sure which is more accurate. I've seen different numbers from several sources. I think 40% is a fair number.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour