Another 3 shootings? Just the cost of gun ownership...

[kallend 2,146]

Coreeece

************

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

Ya, it addresses that 30% as well - what a concept, eh?

So your 40% - 60% was UNTRUE, wasn't it?

I'm not really sure which is more accurate. I've seen different numbers from several sources. I think 40% is a fair number.

Tell us which of your sources is more accurate than the FBI.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

kallend

***

It also addresses the 40-60% of murders that aren't gun related - what a concept, eh?

Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, typically 70% of all US murders involve guns, fairly constant from year to year.

though I'm always a fan of using accurate numbers, that correction doesn't really impact the point being made, does it?

In San Fransisco this year, stabbings have accounted for 35% of the fatalities. It shows quite clearly what would happen if you successfully (magically) removed guns from the hands of criminals. The strong and the mob still can do whatever they want to the weak (unarmed) and the few. If you do nothing to address those causes of violence, you're not going to make meaningful change. Limitations to gun ownership do eliminate the only equalizer available to most victims.

Yoink - you pulled quite the copout with this thread. If you have a point or a proposal to make, make it. Not this passive aggressive shit.

[yoink 321]

Why do I have to fix it? You're the fuckers who have created this problem. If me not taking ownership of your shit is a cop-out then so be it.

I think I've made my point perfectly. This thread has proven that we can't even agree on the basic premise that multiple innocent people getting shot on a regular basis is an issue. The closest anyone has come in 2 pages is councilman's 'How do we do it?' post. That's a really bad reflection on us as human beings, IMO.

Seriously - look back. I was asking for 1 simple thing: Consensus that mass shootings are something that should be addressed and you guys can't even do that. It's pathetic. Instead you'd rather bitch at each other about precise percentages about who's getting shot vs who's getting stabbed in what particular district at what particular time.

The proposal is the same as I stated earlier (you might want to read between the lines). Start with building consensus that there IS a problem. If you jump straight to a solution then it'll be rushed and people will always find ways for nothing to happen.
It'll take years, but get 60 or 70% of the population (regardless of political affiliation) saying that there's an issue and then there'll finally be impetus to force compromise toward investigating possible solutions.

And for Cocheese - ask anyone who's lost someone they care about if the 'improvements' you're listing as some sort of achievement to be lauded are happening fast enough. I bet you a beer I know what their answer will be.

[kelpdiver 2]

yoink

Why do I have to fix it? You're the fuckers who have created this problem. If me not taking ownership of your shit is a cop-out then so be it.

You'll somehow need to explain how violence is my creation, or any other gun owner here. If you can do this, you're smarter than you've shown.

Quote

Seriously - look back. I was asking for 1 simple thing: Consensus that mass shootings are something that should be addressed and you guys can't even do that. It's pathetic. Instead you'd rather bitch at each other about precise percentages about who's getting shot vs who's getting stabbed in what particular district at what particular time.

Pathetic is focusing on shootings versus killing. Was is better that the people in Nice were run over rather than shot? If the Orlando killer had simply started a fire in the club, resulting in people burning or stampeding each other to death, would that have been preferable?

Pathetic is claiming you're not proposing gun bans in the same thread where you insist us gun owner fuckers created the problem.

Pathetic is your straw man that people don't agree that killing is bad.

Pathetic is back pedaling to admitting you have no fucking clue how to solve the problem, and then pretending we need a consensus on the problem before we can solve it.

We've been trying to solve criminal behavior since the beginning of man. The problem in the middle east for nearly so long. (Do you think there's a lack of consensus that there is a problem there?)

What's clear from the last 40 years is the number of guns in the citizen population has little to do with the illegal usage rate. If it did, we wouldn't have a murder rate half what it was 25 years back. If you actually want to improve it, advocate for legalization.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

In San Fransisco this year, stabbings have accounted for 35% of the fatalities. It shows quite clearly what would happen if you successfully (magically) removed guns from the hands of criminals. The strong and the mob still can do whatever they want to the weak (unarmed) and the few. If you do nothing to address those causes of violence, you're not going to make meaningful change. Limitations to gun ownership do eliminate the only equalizer available to most victims.

San Francisco had 52 murders in 2015. To date they have 34, which puts them on pace for 45 to 46 for 2016. That is a 13% reduction in murders.

I guess it then quite clearly shows that when you remove guns your number of murders goes down. At least under the logic you are using here.

[yoink 321]

kelpdiver

What's clear from the last 40 years is the number of guns in the citizen population has little to do with the illegal usage rate. If it did, we wouldn't have a murder rate half what it was 25 years back. If you actually want to improve it, advocate for legalization.

When I say YOU fucked the place up, I'm talking about YOU Americans. This culture of indifference to mass murders is something you've cultivated. The inability to suggest any sort of compromise is a result of the fuckwits and parties YOU vote for. It's nothing to do with me, I'm just an immigrant.

If you actually read my posts before beginning to froth at the mouth you'll see that not once, ANYWHERE, did I mention gun legislation. In fact I specifically stated that banning guns wasn't the answer.

Like many pro-gun advocates the merest hint that someone might be suggesting guns are at fault sends you off the deep end.

I'm not going to let you turn this into a pro/anti gun thread - Go and troll elsewhere. That isn't the point of it. It's a thread about culture. The fact that these types of killings are so commonplace that society is becoming denatured to them.

[Coreeece 2]

yoink

And for Cocheese - ask anyone who's lost someone they care about if the 'improvements' you're listing as some sort of achievement to be lauded are happening fast enough. I bet you a beer I know what their answer will be.

I'm not listing the improvements as achievements to be lauded. I'm simply informing people like you that keep saying we don't care. We do care care - and there are solutions already in place showing positive results. You just refuse to acknowledge them and continue to bitch and moan without offering any suggestions of your own.

yoink

When I say YOU fucked the place up, I'm talking about YOU Americans. This culture of indifference to mass murders is something you've cultivated.

What indifference?

yoink

The inability to suggest any sort of compromise is a result of the fuckwits and parties YOU vote for.

It's people like you with the inability to suggest solutions of your own - you can't even recognize the measures that are already in place and producing positive results.

yoink

It's nothing to do with me, I'm just an immigrant.

This country wasn't built with immigrants that just stood by idly, bitching and moaning at every problem they faced. If all you're gonna do is complain, then you're free to pack up your shit and get the hell out of here. This country already has enough armchair quarterbacks without having the need to import them as well.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 892]

South Carolina school having some extracullicular activities today.
Just the cost of an American education it would seem.
3 injured so far.

[kelpdiver 2]

yoink

If you actually read my posts before beginning to froth at the mouth

Says the guy who referred to 'you fuckers'. You're completely incapable of having a rational discussion on the subject, which I'll argue is the most important requirement to have any meaningful success.

Feel free to emigrate back.

[billvon 3,111]

Quote

Consensus that mass shootings are something that should be addressed and you guys can't even do that. It's pathetic. Instead you'd rather bitch at each other about precise percentages about who's getting shot vs who's getting stabbed in what particular district at what particular time.

Keep in mind that this is just a (fairly right wing) political discussion forum on a skydiving website.

In the US at large, most people DO think it's a serious problem, and about half support new gun regulation to try to combat it. Some numbers:

Do you think Americans are safer with more guns or fewer guns? 45% more 46% fewer (McClatchy-Marist Poll. Jul 2016)

63 percent are "more worried that they or someone they know will be a victim of gun violence" 29 percent "more worried that they or a friend will fall prey to a terrorist attack." (McClathcy - Marist Nov 2015)

Do you think there is a significant problem of police using excessive force? 63% yes (FOX News 43 poll Jul 2016)

Do you favor or oppose stricter gun control laws? 55% favor, 42% oppose (CNN/ORC Jun 16 )

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

Keep in mind that this is just a (fairly right wing) political discussion forum on a skydiving website.

I doubt this forum leans that far from the average. Certainly doesn't when accounting for poster volume.

As for the rest of your post - what people collectively think isn't actually all that productive on the subject. People support and demand legislation that is provably ineffective in dealing with the problem. People also fully endorsed suspension of any and all civil liberties after 9/11 and would have supported going to war against any brown nation in the aftermath.