Great editorial by Jeremi Suri

[wmw999 2,587]

Here, at least today (6/22).

Things were easier in America in some ways when travel was harder, so people stayed in more homogeneous communities. You could identify with at least most of your neighbors, and, yeah, few of your friends would object if you treated some of the outsiders poorly.

But while we like the advantages of mobility and communication, we're not as comfortable with the harder part of having a bigger local community.

Suck it up, cupcakes.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[winsor 236]

wmw999

Here, at least today (6/22).

Things were easier in America in some ways when travel was harder, so people stayed in more homogeneous communities. You could identify with at least most of your neighbors, and, yeah, few of your friends would object if you treated some of the outsiders poorly.

But while we like the advantages of mobility and communication, we're not as comfortable with the harder part of having a bigger local community.

Suck it up, cupcakes.

Wendy P.

In "The Patriot," the Lord Cornwallis character makes the point to the villainous cavalry colonel that a scorched earth approach to achieving victory would guarantee hostility in the ensuing peace.

I was in Serbia very shortly after Clinton's air campaign ended, and it was made very clear to me that at that time, if you were not the target, you were in the clear.

For example, the military communications station above town heard a 'whoosh' one night, and the area was covered in leaflets saying, in effect, to skip work and see a movie or go to dinner tomorrow evening.

The next evening, Tornadoes put a pair of 250 kg bombs through the window of the unoccupied communication station. The general consensus was gratitude that A) personnel were given the opportunity to stay alive, and B) there was NO collateral damage.

An unsuccessful approach to surgical attack was Operation Phoenix in Vietnam. Getting locals to identify Viet Cong, and then having snake-eaters kill them in their sleep, sounded like a very efficient means to an end.

As it turns out, the locals quite rightly concluded that falling afoul of the remaining Viet Cong by fingering any of them was a Very Bad Career Move. Thus, when someone was identified for elimination, they were more often than not the subject of personal enmity.

The least vectored approach to achieving a military/political goal is that put forth by Col. Giulio Douhet in the 1920s. The theory, as adopted by almost every country capable of strategic bombing, went like this: bombers, which could come and go with impunity, would pound the opposing population into submission. The enemy would sue for peace, and accept whatever terms would end the onslaught.

In practice, it had the opposite effect. Britain was defeated in 1940 by any metric, and Parliament was trying to work out terms for an end to hostilities. When the Luftwaffe went from bombing airfields to bombing neighborhoods, however, the hungry and dispirited populous instantly became furious and intractable, and sure victory slipped though the grasp of Berlin.

I am uneasy around anyone who is fanatical about much of anything. Anarchists, jihadis, haredim or whatever I can generally do without. The papal approach of 'kill them all - God will recognize his own' can make some dreadful people look good by comparison, and it is wise to avoid anything resembling that policy.

A cynical appraisal of what to expect after the cessation of hostilities goes a long way toward achieving any stated military/political goal. When we remove Khaddafi/Hussein/Sadat/etc. from power, what do we expect to fill the vacuum? I'd rather have an oppressive despot keeping a lid on a social shithole than to have absolute chaos among those who become free to kill each other after said oppressive despot is overthrown.

This lesson is lost among many of our foreign service professionals, who grew up singing kumbiya and how they'd like to buy the world a Coke and what have you.

Sometimes naivete is fatal.


BSBD,

Winsor

[jakee 1,594]

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A cynical appraisal of what to expect after the cessation of hostilities goes a long way toward achieving any stated military/political goal. When we remove Khaddafi/Hussein/Sadat/etc. from power, what do we expect to fill the vacuum? I'd rather have an oppressive despot keeping a lid on a social shithole than to have absolute chaos among those who become free to kill each other after said oppressive despot is overthrown.

Ecept that right now it's 60 years on from several of our more cynical interventions in the middle east in we're still reaping the whirlwind that resulted. So that doesn't go too well either.

So of two options that both have the potential to turn shitty for us, I'd rather choose the one that doesn't involve selling other poeple into slavery. But hey, maybe I've just sung kumbiya too many times.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 236]

jakee

Quote

A cynical appraisal of what to expect after the cessation of hostilities goes a long way toward achieving any stated military/political goal. When we remove Khaddafi/Hussein/Sadat/etc. from power, what do we expect to fill the vacuum? I'd rather have an oppressive despot keeping a lid on a social shithole than to have absolute chaos among those who become free to kill each other after said oppressive despot is overthrown.

Ecept that right now it's 60 years on from several of our more cynical interventions in the middle east in we're still reaping the whirlwind that resulted. So that doesn't go too well either.

So of two options that both have the potential to turn shitty for us, I'd rather choose the one that doesn't involve selling other poeple into slavery. But hey, maybe I've just sung kumbiya too many times.

Clues - 5p

[wmw999 2,587]

I don't think he's suggesting that one pay no attention to safety. I think it's an aspiration, and a worthy one. If lived in and traveled to a number of countries; I find that treating people with basic respect, smiles, and awareness has uniformly (though not universally) good results.

I skydive with two parachutes; that doesn't mean I don't trust the primary. Likewise I treat people as basically similar to me, but that doesn't mean I don't keep an eye out in case it's not the case. Seems to have worked so far. Not every experience is positive, but I don't think that'd change if I were paranoid.

Acknowledging that people have common goals with you doesn't devalue what you don't have in common, but sometimes it can help you to focus on what you can make progress on.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 62]

wmw999

I don't think he's suggesting that one pay no attention to safety. I think it's an aspiration, and a worthy one. If lived in and traveled to a number of countries; I find that treating people with basic respect, smiles, and awareness has uniformly (though not universally) good results.

I skydive with two parachutes; that doesn't mean I don't trust the primary. Likewise I treat people as basically similar to me, but that doesn't mean I don't keep an eye out in case it's not the case. Seems to have worked so far. Not every experience is positive, but I don't think that'd change if I were paranoid.

Acknowledging that people have common goals with you doesn't devalue what you don't have in common, but sometimes it can help you to focus on what you can make progress on.

Wendy P.

Made me think of an alleged principle of the USMC code: Be professional, be polite and have a plan to kill everyone your meet.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreeece 2]

wmw999

Things were easier in America in some ways when travel was harder, so people stayed in more homogeneous communities. You could identify with at least most of your neighbors, and, yeah, few of your friends would object if you treated some of the outsiders poorly.

I can't really relate to that as I grew up in an extremely diverse environment. My school was like Noah's Arc - at least two of everything.

wmw999

But while we like the advantages of mobility and communication, we're not as comfortable with the harder part of having a bigger local community.

What's uncomfortable is driving through your hometown and watching it go to hell - it's falling apart and it's like nobody gives a shit, and the decay is now spreading deep into the suburbs.

...and I don't necessarily think it's because people are lazy and don't take care of their property. For many of these immigrants, it's a step up from where they came from and they don't know any better - just like people moving from Detroit into the suburbs after the housing crisis.

I get the sense that there is no pressure on the government and business to keep up their property since the people living their don't see anything wrong. Why would municipalities or business owners spend money on unnecessary up keep when it won't affect their business either way?

wmw999

Suck it up, cupcakes.

Below are links to one of the last negro league stadiums that I had the honor to play at while I was in high school. The area was once vibrant - just a good time. Maybe 5 baseball games going on at a time - little league, bar league softball, tennis, soccer, football and hockey in the winter. It's all abandoned now and overgrown with weeds and garbage thrown about.

You'd think people would want to restore the area for the sheer historical value of a negro league stadium, but nobody seems to give a shit. Part of me says - "well it's their shit now, let them live in it as they see fit." But the other part of me says that perhaps I should take the initiative to restore it, whenever that may be.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamtramck+Stadium/@42.3894166,-83.0503049,3a,60y,343.37h,93.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVfarmfFRaB2P3tNQX-hQtg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x8824d25b2d2cee9b:0xc77c7b99b1ce6a98!2s3201+Dan+St,+Hamtramck,+MI+48212!3b1!8m2!3d42.3895369!4d-83.0499719!3m4!1s0x8824d244cbc68965:0xf5ea4534ad3981a9!8m2!3d42.3904639!4d-83.0502408!6m1!1e1

https://ondeckcircle.wordpress.com/2014/05/06/last-of-the-old-negro-league-ballparks/

I've attached a couple photos that I took from the other end of the park. Suffice it to say that I did suck it up - I held my nose and choked back the tears. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jakee 1,594]

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Clues - 5p

Then you should invest.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 236]

jakee

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Clues - 5p

Then you should invest.

I'm confident that you can afford it.

Go ahead and splurge!

[normiss 893]

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like Noah's Arc

You watched a sitcom about 4 gay men?
Interesting.

[jakee 1,594]

winsor

***

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Clues - 5p

Then you should invest.

I'm confident that you can afford it.

I don't need it. However, given that you are yet again desperately trying to use this little sideshow to avoid defending your position I'm guessing you've come up a little short.

So splash out, get a little one for yourself and come back when you've got something worthwhile to say.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DanG 1]

Detroit's experiences are fairly unique to Detroit. Lots of other US cities are doing quite well.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,594]

Seems to me especially strange to blame urban decay in Detroit on poor immigrants, when I would have thought it was rich white businessmen who needed to take most of the flack for abandoning large buildings...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

***Clues - 5p

Then you should invest.

lol, you guys should get a TV show - I'd binge watch. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

DanG

Detroit's experiences are fairly unique to Detroit. Lots of other US cities are doing quite well.

Ya, I've experienced that first hand from St. Louis, to Chicago to Cleveland, to Pittsburgh - I feel a little bit left out.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jakee

Seems to me especially strange to blame urban decay in Detroit on poor immigrants, when I would have thought it was rich white businessmen who needed to take most of the flack for abandoning large buildings...

Those areas are a lost cause - the buildings were abandoned long before I came around and the neighborhoods were being burnt down on devil's night while I was coming of age. It's doubtful that those recently off the boat ever set foot there.

One of my favorite past times was just cruising around taking photography of urban decay and contrasting it with contemporary development in our hope of rebuilding.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour