Words Don't mean what they used to - right?

[turtlespeed 226]

Coreeece

***
How many versions are available and how do you know which version is correct?

There are a lot of translations but they all pretty much say the same thing, right?

If you can provide the same verse from two different translations that appear to contradict each other, then I'll do my best to explain which one I believe is correct and why.

How would you know for sure?

Here are some examples.

Here are "updates"? What did the language just stop meaning what it meant in the past? Did the language change, or did the bible adjust its self to become more appealing?

Here again, did words just all of a sudden stop meaning what they used to mean? A whale is not a great fish.
I suspect that was changed because it was impossible for Jonah to be in a whale for three days. He simply wouldn't fit.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

******
How many versions are available and how do you know which version is correct?

There are a lot of translations but they all pretty much say the same thing, right?

If you can provide the same verse from two different translations that appear to contradict each other, then I'll do my best to explain which one I believe is correct and why.

How would you know for sure?

Here are some examples.Verses are generally omitted in some translations because they are not found in the earliest manuscripts. Even versions that include the verses make a footnote of that. These verses typically are not used in doctrine unless the idea of any one of those particular verses is found elsewhere in scripture.

turtlespeed

Here are "updates"?

When I study scripture I use a variety of translations including an interlinear bible in the original language. I may look at the 1984 version of the NIV and see that God hates divorce. The practical application to that would be to not get a divorce, which is the idea being conveyed in the 2011 version. It doesn't say anything about God no longer hating divorce, like the the author suggests.

Furthermore, the NIV is not marketed as a literal translation but considered what is called a "dynamic equivalency" that is typically used for study and life application. It's usually recommended as an accompaniment to a literal translation.

turtlespeed

What did the language just stop meaning what it meant in the past?

As we obtain more knowledge about the historical, cultural and circumstantial context behind biblical lifestyles, it can lead to more insight into how the original languages should be translated and/or interpreted.

turtlespeed

Did the language change, or did the bible adjust its self to become more appealing?[/url]

Well certainly language changes overtime, and the way things were written centuries ago may not be perceived the same way today.

. . .but to your point, yes - I believe that some translations are softened to make more money and appeal to more people. I remember reading one translation - I forget which one - but ultimately, the passage as I had understood it was about addressing your own sin, but the translation omitted everything in that verse about sin, thus missing the entire point of the message.

Some translations are so bad that they're not even considered a Bible, but rather a commentary.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 226]

Coreeece

*********
How many versions are available and how do you know which version is correct?

There are a lot of translations but they all pretty much say the same thing, right?

If you can provide the same verse from two different translations that appear to contradict each other, then I'll do my best to explain which one I believe is correct and why.

How would you know for sure?

Here are some examples.Verses are generally omitted in some translations because they are not found in the earliest manuscripts. Even versions that include the verses make a footnote of that. These verses typically are not used in doctrine unless the idea of any one of those particular verses is found elsewhere in scripture.

turtlespeed

Here are "updates"?

When I study scripture I use a variety of translations including an interlinear bible in the original language. I may look at the 1984 version of the NIV and see that God hates divorce. The practical application to that would be to not get a divorce, which is the idea being conveyed in the 2011 version. It doesn't say anything about God no longer hating divorce, like the the author suggests.

Furthermore, the NIV is not marketed as a literal translation but considered what is called a "dynamic equivalency" that is typically used for study and life application. It's usually recommended as an accompaniment to a literal translation.

turtlespeed

What did the language just stop meaning what it meant in the past?

As we obtain more knowledge about the historical, cultural and circumstantial context behind biblical lifestyles, it can lead to more insight into how the original languages should be translated and/or interpreted.

turtlespeed

Did the language change, or did the bible adjust its self to become more appealing?[/url]

Well certainly language changes overtime, and the way things were written centuries ago may not be perceived the same way today.

. . .but to your point, yes - I believe that some translations are softened to make more money and appeal to more people. I remember reading one translation - I forget which one - but ultimately, the passage as I had understood it was about addressing your own sin, but the translation omitted everything in that verse about sin, thus missing the entire point of the message.

Some translations are so bad that they're not even considered a Bible, but rather a commentary.

What you wrote above is a total contradiction to its self.

The bible is supposed to be God's word.

Why would he need anything changed?

If God is perfect, how did he fuck up and need translations?

Seems to me that it is more of a feeling a guy had once because of not being able to understand the mechanics of life and his surroundings. It's been like that - since the beginning of time.

It's a survival instinct. It helps some rolls avoid depression because it gives them hope that their lives are only a beginning.

If someone needs that kind of help, that's fine. Dont't try to make others bend to your will because of it. Don't EVER let that be a guiding influence over lives of people that don't ever want to be part of that way of thinking.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Stumpy 284]

turtlespeed

************
How many versions are available and how do you know which version is correct?

There are a lot of translations but they all pretty much say the same thing, right?

If you can provide the same verse from two different translations that appear to contradict each other, then I'll do my best to explain which one I believe is correct and why.

How would you know for sure?

Here are some examples.Verses are generally omitted in some translations because they are not found in the earliest manuscripts. Even versions that include the verses make a footnote of that. These verses typically are not used in doctrine unless the idea of any one of those particular verses is found elsewhere in scripture.

turtlespeed

Here are "updates"?

When I study scripture I use a variety of translations including an interlinear bible in the original language. I may look at the 1984 version of the NIV and see that God hates divorce. The practical application to that would be to not get a divorce, which is the idea being conveyed in the 2011 version. It doesn't say anything about God no longer hating divorce, like the the author suggests.

Furthermore, the NIV is not marketed as a literal translation but considered what is called a "dynamic equivalency" that is typically used for study and life application. It's usually recommended as an accompaniment to a literal translation.

turtlespeed

What did the language just stop meaning what it meant in the past?

As we obtain more knowledge about the historical, cultural and circumstantial context behind biblical lifestyles, it can lead to more insight into how the original languages should be translated and/or interpreted.

turtlespeed

Did the language change, or did the bible adjust its self to become more appealing?[/url]

Well certainly language changes overtime, and the way things were written centuries ago may not be perceived the same way today.

. . .but to your point, yes - I believe that some translations are softened to make more money and appeal to more people. I remember reading one translation - I forget which one - but ultimately, the passage as I had understood it was about addressing your own sin, but the translation omitted everything in that verse about sin, thus missing the entire point of the message.

Some translations are so bad that they're not even considered a Bible, but rather a commentary.

What you wrote above is a total contradiction to its self.

The bible is supposed to be God's word.

Why would he need anything changed?

If God is perfect, how did he fuck up and need translations?

Seems to me that it is more of a feeling a guy had once because of not being able to understand the mechanics of life and his surroundings. It's been like that - since the beginning of time.

It's a survival instinct. It helps some rolls avoid depression because it gives them hope that their lives are only a beginning.

If someone needs that kind of help, that's fine. Dont't try to make others bend to your will because of it. Don't EVER let that be a guiding influence over lives of people that don't ever want to be part of that way of thinking.

I hate it when you do that.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

What you wrote above is a total contradiction to its self.

The bible is supposed to be God's word.

Why would he need anything changed?

If God is perfect, how did he fuck up and need translations?

It's believed that God's word was written in a different language, so there is a need for translation if you don't understand that language - I thought that much was obvious.

turtlespeed

Seems to me that it is more of a feeling a guy had once because of not being able to understand the mechanics of life and his surroundings.

You're entitled to your beliefs.

turtlespeed

It's a survival instinct. It helps some rolls avoid depression because it gives them hope that their lives are only a beginning.

To me it's actually much more than that, but I wouldn't expect you to even try to understand anything beyond your own perspective.

turtlespeed

If someone needs that kind of help, that's fine. Dont't try to make others bend to your will because of it. Don't EVER let that be a guiding influence over lives of people that don't ever want to be part of that way of thinking.

What does that have to do with me? If you ask questions, I'm gonna offer my perspective - big deal.

...and just because I may voice differing opinions does not mean that I'm bending others to my will.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 226]

When I do what. Use logic and reasoning?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Stumpy 284]

turtlespeed

When I do what. Use logic and reasoning?

Make perfect sense and I agree with you

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[normiss 897]

I wondered about that....

[Coreeece 2]

Damn, I didn't realize I was performing directly inside the peanut gallery.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 2,277]

The Bible is a big book of fables. Long cherished handed down fables. Some people choose to believe the fables are non fiction and to find meaning and truth in them. It is completely pointless to tell such people that they are wrong.

At the same time it is equally or even more pointless for believers to tell others that the Bible is anything but fiction. Both sides in this argument just need to accept each other.

The fact is that even when you approach the Bible as the work of fiction that it is, these oldest of mankind's stories contain a lot of wisdom and lessons for today.

But, they can not be used as a basis for law. Society has outgrown these simple lessons. That is why the US constitution bans promotion of religion by the government. You only have to look at societies that are governed by religion to know what a mistake that can be.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

But, they can not be used as a basis for law. Society has outgrown these simple lessons. That is why the US constitution bans promotion of religion by the government.

I agree that society in general has outgrown a sense of loyalty and self sacrifice - and I would never force that on anyone - not even a society that has given way to hedonism, greed, self-righteous humanism and a materialistic sense of entitlement that's simply not sustainable.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 897]

It's been rather sustainable as long has man has existed.

[jcd11235 0]

normiss

It's been rather sustainable as long has man has existed.

So 6000 years, less five days?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

normiss

It's been rather sustainable as long has man has existed.

Life has been sustainable, of course. As for various lifestyles? - not so much.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 897]

Depends on your preference of sources it would seem.

[gowlerk 2,277]

Coreeece

***But, they can not be used as a basis for law. Society has outgrown these simple lessons. That is why the US constitution bans promotion of religion by the government.

I agree that society in general has outgrown a sense of loyalty and self sacrifice - and I would never force that on anyone - not even a society that has given way to hedonism, greed, self-righteous humanism and a materialistic sense of entitlement that's simply not sustainable.


There are people who bemoan the state of society and long for things to return to the way they used to be. I feel sorry for these people. They don't perceive the improvements in life at all, just an empty longing for a past that never really existed. Of course, there are places in the world where the situation for people has truly gone to a horrible state.

Myself, I see that where I live, and where I spend a lot of time, namely the US and Canada, life is easy and fullfilling. Crime is down, most everyone is fat and even in the US where 20% of people have a hard time accessing healthcare, people are living longer.

In the good old days more people attended church. And churches did their level best to suppress anyone who did not fit the mold. I am very very glad that I live in a time and place where it is safe to reject these blatantly false teachings. Good riddance to those who would try to control my thoughts using fear of damnation as their tool.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[turtlespeed 226]

Coreeece

***It's been rather sustainable as long has man has existed.

Life has been sustainable, of course. As for various lifestyles? - not so much.

So how long has man Existed?

Since Adam?

The Bible says so.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

gowlerk

There are people who bemoan the state of society and long for things to return to the way they used to be. I feel sorry for these people. They don't perceive the improvements in life at all, just an empty longing for a past that never really existed.

hmmm, I can't say that I've ever met anyone like that - you probably haven't either.

gowlerk

I am very very glad that I live in a time and place where it is safe to reject these blatantly false teachings. Good riddance to those who would try to control my thoughts using fear of damnation as their tool.

That's interesting because just several hours ago in post #10, you were going on about how "it is completely pointless to tell such people (believers) that they are wrong" - and that "both sides in this argument just need to accept each other." - and how "these oldest of mankind's stories contain a lot of wisdom and lessons for today."

That's gotta be some kind of a record time flip flop or something. I guess words don't mean what they used to. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[gowlerk 2,277]

Quote

That's interesting because just several hours ago in post #10, you were going on about how "it is completely pointless to tell such people (believers) that they are wrong" - and that "both sides in this argument just need to accept each other." - and how "these oldest of mankind's stories contain a lot of wisdom and lessons for today."

That's gotta be some kind of a record time flip flop or something. I guess words don't mean what they used to.

I'm not sure what to say to you. I see no flip flop at all. But I'll try. The stories are just that, complete with lessons and morals. But they are fiction. Even though they are fiction, I accept that you believe they are not. I am not trying to convince you, I know you believe, and will continue to believe. Even though I know they are fables. I am writing in this forum both to believers and non believers.

There are a lot of people who believe in those, and other fables. And books with ancient rules written in them. I reject completely any attempts by any of these people to impose rules upon me that are based on these ancient writings. But that does not mean those writings are without value. The world would be much poorer if the Bible, the Qur'an, or the Torah were lost. Not to mention the many texts that I am not even aware of.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 62]

One of the great lessons that I learned about the Word of God is this. He speaks to our spirit man. Until you are born again in Christ, you may or may not even know you have a spirit man.

The different translations of the Bible are not to change the message from God but to help your spirit man absorb His directions to expand and save your soul.

The soul or man is his mind, emotions and will.

That is why you can't read the Bible like a text book. It is a love letter to stimulate your imagination by connecting your spirit to the spirit of God. Accepting the gift of Christ is the bridge to that connection.

Of course, if you are not interested in such a life then these words are foolishness.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[turtlespeed 226]

RonD1120

One of the great lessons that I learned about the Word of God is this. He speaks to our spirit man. Until you are born again in Christ, you may or may not even know you have a spirit man.

The different translations of the Bible are not to change the message from God but to help your spirit man absorb His directions to expand and save your soul.

The soul or man is his mind, emotions and will.

That is why you can't read the Bible like a text book. It is a love letter to stimulate your imagination by connecting your spirit to the spirit of God. Accepting the gift of Christ is the bridge to that connection.

Of course, if you are not interested in such a life then these words are foolishness.

Ok. I can wrap my brain around the notion that the bible changes to suit its audience if they are unable to understand the message - because maybe - and this is a stretch - because the language and its eccentricities may be a barrier.

Why does it take so much money for one individual to spread that word?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun