Another "green" energy company bites the dust

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Nukes don't work 100% of the time either. Does that mean that therefore you must build two nuclear plants to reap the benefits of having one?

Wind has a what, 35% availability?
How about solar? 55% in a year?

And both of these are highly variable depending on location.

Coal, oil, gas and nukes are available at a much higher rate. You do NOT need to double the generation as you do with wind and solar.

Generators keep on average a 30% spinning reserves to cover outages and plant scrambles (a plant drops off line) to try and keep a high reliability rate.

If we move to more wind and solar these costs will increase as more traditional generation plants will be needed in on line spinning reserve pools.

As I said earlier, batteries can change some of this dynamic but we are not there yet.

And grid connection costs are soon to rise significantly to cover stranded costs that is starting to affect areas with large solar set ups. The only way to not be affected by this will be to drop off the grid.

And what the hell. An all good and power government might even say that those rich enough to disconnect from the grid SHOULD subsidize those who financially or geographically are unable to install their own solar or wind stations. Don't you think you should help out those less fortunate that you? After all, you did not build any of what you have yourself.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 2,275]

Quote

This is what it is all about to you.

It has nothing to do with so called man made climate change.

It is about you and yours forcing your ideals on the rest of us.

So, this is what you really believe? You think that the move to less carbon is about the "greenies" controlling you? That's pretty amazing and more than a little sad. Mad as well. But at least I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 23]

gowlerk

Quote

This is what it is all about to you.

It has nothing to do with so called man made climate change.

It is about you and yours forcing your ideals on the rest of us.

LOL

It is I who has gained the understanding.

I like that every time a point of no return is passed you enviro nuts poke your head down in the sand again and dream up a new date or recycle another apocalyptic disaster that will soon befall us.

You all are dangerous but funny too


So, this is what you really believe? You think that the move to less carbon is about the "greenies" controlling you? That's pretty amazing and more than a little sad. Mad as well. But at least I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 2,275]

I can't hear you. I'm wearing my tin foil hat. You will never get to me!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 23]

gowlerk

I can't hear you. I'm wearing my tin foil hat. You will never get to me!

this helps me understand you better
not that there is any surprise here....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

gowlerk

Quote

This is what it is all about to you.

It has nothing to do with so called man made climate change.

It is about you and yours forcing your ideals on the rest of us.

So, this is what you really believe? You think that the move to less carbon is about the "greenies" controlling you? That's pretty amazing and more than a little sad. Mad as well. But at least I now have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

It's pretty much defined as the greenies controlling others and forcing their ideals on others. Isn't legislation and government subsidies, etc pretty much exactly forcing it on the public?

Control is neither good nor evil. I'd force my ideal that we shouldn't randomly stab each other with knives.

SO - the question is the motivation

1 - some people are just control freaks and power hungry - no kidding. Pick a subject - these people always show up

2 - but I suspect that most feel they have legitimate reasons and they think they are doing it for the good of all - right or wrong, I don't belittle them for good intentions. I might disagree. Or I might agree but have a different philosophy about how to handle it. But I suspect most mean well (especially the every day advocate that's not making money or power from it).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,112]

>It is about you and yours forcing your ideals on the rest of us.

So to you, "free market" = "forcing your ideals on the rest of us."

About par for the RushMC course.

>It is not going to work as you envision. Too many details you are choosing to ignore
>(and I have spelled them out)

Just because you do not understand a solution does not invalidate it. Spacecraft continue to orbit the Earth even if people out there can't imagine why they don't fall down.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>It is about you and yours forcing your ideals on the rest of us.

So to you, "free market" = "forcing your ideals on the rest of us."

About par for the RushMC course.

>It is not going to work as you envision. Too many details you are choosing to ignore
>(and I have spelled them out)

Just because you do not understand a solution does not invalidate it. Spacecraft continue to orbit the Earth even if people out there can't imagine why they don't fall down.

You have a solution in search of a problem.

Your free market spin on my comments is classic billvon

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcd11235 0]

billvon

Spacecraft continue to orbit the Earth even if people out there can't imagine why they don't fall down.

Isn't "falling down" all an orbit really is?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,112]

>You have a solution in search of a problem.

You yourself described the problem.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>You have a solution in search of a problem.

You yourself described the problem.

Lol

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,112]

>The free market can not overcome the fact that double generation must be built when one considers solar or wind.
>Neither work 100% of the time. Therefore, for every meg of solar you need a meg of gas, oil, coal or nuke generation.

Yet Portugal and Denmark have figured it out:


=========
Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

The Guardian

Zero emission milestone reached as country is powered by just wind, solar and hydro-generated electricity for 107 hours

Portugal’s clean energy surge has been spurred by the EU’s renewable targets for 2020.

As recently as 2013, renewables provided only about 23% of Portugal’s electricity. By 2015 that figure had risen to 48%.

Arthur Neslen
Wednesday 18 May 2016 09.59 EDT

Portugal kept its lights on with renewable energy alone for four consecutive days last week in a clean energy milestone revealed by data analysis of national energy network figures.

Electricity consumption in the country was fully covered by solar, wind and hydro power in an extraordinary 107-hour run that lasted from 6.45am on Saturday 7 May until 5.45pm the following Wednesday, the analysis says.

News of the zero emissions landmark comes just days after Germany announced that clean energy had powered almost all its electricity needs on Sunday 15 May, with power prices turning negative at several times in the day – effectively paying consumers to use it.
Wind power generates 140% of Denmark's electricity demand
Read more

Oliver Joy, a spokesman for the Wind Europe trade association said: “We are seeing trends like this spread across Europe - last year with Denmark and now in Portugal. The Iberian peninsula is a great resource for renewables and wind energy, not just for the region but for the whole of Europe.”
=================

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>The free market can not overcome the fact that double generation must be built when one considers solar or wind.
>Neither work 100% of the time. Therefore, for every meg of solar you need a meg of gas, oil, coal or nuke generation.

Yet Portugal and Denmark have figured it out:


=========
Portugal runs for four days straight on renewable energy alone

The Guardian

Zero emission milestone reached as country is powered by just wind, solar and hydro-generated electricity for 107 hours

Portugal’s clean energy surge has been spurred by the EU’s renewable targets for 2020.

As recently as 2013, renewables provided only about 23% of Portugal’s electricity. By 2015 that figure had risen to 48%.

Arthur Neslen
Wednesday 18 May 2016 09.59 EDT

Portugal kept its lights on with renewable energy alone for four consecutive days last week in a clean energy milestone revealed by data analysis of national energy network figures.

Electricity consumption in the country was fully covered by solar, wind and hydro power in an extraordinary 107-hour run that lasted from 6.45am on Saturday 7 May until 5.45pm the following Wednesday, the analysis says.

News of the zero emissions landmark comes just days after Germany announced that clean energy had powered almost all its electricity needs on Sunday 15 May, with power prices turning negative at several times in the day – effectively paying consumers to use it.
Wind power generates 140% of Denmark's electricity demand
Read more

Oliver Joy, a spokesman for the Wind Europe trade association said: “We are seeing trends like this spread across Europe - last year with Denmark and now in Portugal. The Iberian peninsula is a great resource for renewables and wind energy, not just for the region but for the whole of Europe.”
=================

And coal, gas, nuke or other means of generation was still needed to cover the massive shortfall.

My handy dandy calculator tells me there is 8760 hours in a year. What percentage of the 8760 hours did they use just wind or solar? 30% maybe? Even is the %48 number used is close to true that still leaves what? 4380 hours?



Nice article but I wonder if you really did read it.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

My handy dandy calculator tells me there is 8760 hours in a year. What percentage of the 8760 hours did they use just wind or solar? 30% maybe? Even is the %48 number used is close to true that still leaves what? 4380 hours

Jesus Christ that is some retarded logic.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

My handy dandy calculator tells me there is 8760 hours in a year. What percentage of the 8760 hours did they use just wind or solar? 30% maybe? Even is the %48 number used is close to true that still leaves what? 4380 hours

Jesus Christ that is some retarded logic.

Wind generation in Iowa is some of the most available in the world. And that is 38% of the time. (not the most available just some of the most available for you spinners out there)

My logic is fine

YOU just do not have the ability to understand something outside your world view.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Wind generation in Iowa is some of the most available in the world. And that is 38% of the time. (not the most available just some of the most available for you spinners out there)

So that means green energy is useless, like you asserted?

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

Wind generation in Iowa is some of the most available in the world. And that is 38% of the time. (not the most available just some of the most available for you spinners out there)

So that means green energy is useless, like you asserted?

You are too damned serious to much of the time.

How would you get your electricity the 62% of the time?


BTW
My assertion was based government pushed green energy.
Not green energy by itself

It has its place

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,112]

>My handy dandy calculator tells me there is 8760 hours in a year. What
>percentage of the 8760 hours did they use just wind or solar? 30% maybe? Even
>is the %48 number used is close to true that still leaves what? 4380 hours?

I'll give you an easier one.

Of the 8760 hours in a year here in the US, how many hours did we use just coal or oil for our electricity needs? That's easy - zero.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

How would you get your electricity the 62% of the time?

Hopefully soon from storage mediums. In the mean time from solar, hydro, nuclear, natural gas.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

How would you get your electricity the 62% of the time?

Hopefully soon from storage mediums. In the mean time from solar, hydro, nuclear, natural gas.

As I have said many times, storage may be a game changer soon. And you have listed most of the required back up generation needed today

Progress

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>My handy dandy calculator tells me there is 8760 hours in a year. What
>percentage of the 8760 hours did they use just wind or solar? 30% maybe? Even
>is the %48 number used is close to true that still leaves what? 4380 hours?

I'll give you an easier one.

Of the 8760 hours in a year here in the US, how many hours did we use just coal or oil for our electricity needs? That's easy - zero.

And your 107 continues hours is 1.22 percent of the time.

WOW

Let have a party!!!


For every MEG of wind you need one MEG of back up.

For every MEG of coal/gas generation, how much backup is required?

I will give you a hint. It is NOT one to one like wind and solar are today.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,112]

>For every MEG of wind you need one MEG of back up.

No we don't. As you recently stated, that's not a problem.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>For every MEG of wind you need one MEG of back up.

No we don't. As you recently stated, that's not a problem.

Yes, we do

Wind does not blow all the time.

38% of the time at best here in the US.

For every MEG of wind you need a MEG of backup
That is a fact.

So it effectively doubles or investment needed to maintain power round the clock as demanded by the consumer.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,147]

rushmc

***>For every MEG of wind you need one MEG of back up.

No we don't. As you recently stated, that's not a problem.

Yes, we do

Wind does not blow all the time.

38% of the time at best here in the US.

For every MEG of wind you need a MEG of backup
That is a fact.

So it effectively doubles or investment needed to maintain power round the clock as demanded by the consumer.

No coal, nuke or natural gas plant runs 100% of the time. So according to rushmc's "Looking Glass" logic, they all need MEG for MEG backup.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,112]

>> As you recently stated, that's not a problem.

>Yes, we do

Rush: This pricing structure does not take into account the duplicate generation needed when it will not work.

BVN: It does indeed. People like to save money, as do companies. By pricing power in a free market, people use more when it is cheap and less when it is expensive - like most other commodities.

Rush: You have a solution in search of a problem.

So now there's a problem again.

I can't keep up with your flip-flopping.