No más

[jakee 1,596]

SkyDekker

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Dunno, but there are more than two reasons for doing either.

That's the question. For weed the only reason I know of is the altered state. For alcohol that isn't the case. I see that as a difference.

Ok sure, that's a difference. The rest of what you said is still a distortion of fact, though.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The rest of what you said is still a distortion of fact, though.

How so?

[jakee 1,596]

SkyDekker

***I'm fairly sure some cancer sufferers would disagree with that perspective.

Why? They are taking the substance specifically for the way their body reacts to it. Which, again, is the only reason I know why people use the substance. Which is how it is different from alcohol.

OK, you've just refuted your own argument. What is taste if it is not your body's reaction to a chemical?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

SkyDekker

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The rest of what you said is still a distortion of fact, though.

How so?

When you said you can drink alcohol and not become impaired but you can't smoke a joint and not become impaired. That was a distortion.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[normiss 897]

If you move the goal post back to altered state vs. the body's reaction, I'd still argue they are using the medicinal weed for an appetite as opposed to a buzz.
Or so I'm told by a friend that does. He seeks out the strains that have very little if any buzz at all. He much prefers to simply not puke and be able to eat.


How does all of this play out in states where it's legal?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

jakee

******I'm fairly sure some cancer sufferers would disagree with that perspective.

Why? They are taking the substance specifically for the way their body reacts to it. Which, again, is the only reason I know why people use the substance. Which is how it is different from alcohol.

OK, you've just refuted your own argument. What is taste if it is not your body's reaction to a chemical?

I didn't mean to move the goal posts. I wanted to get away from the work impairment since it has a negative connotation to it.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

jakee

***

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The rest of what you said is still a distortion of fact, though.

How so?

When you said you can drink alcohol and not become impaired but you can't smoke a joint and not become impaired. That was a distortion.

What is the point of smoking a joint and not becoming impaired? Specially if we take medicinal use out of the equation and compare recreational alcohol use to recreational weed use.

[skycop 0]

This dude is kind of a whiner.

I'm a bit more in tune with detecting drug/alcohol use, I've never really had a problem. At certain DZ's the smell around camping area can be interesting, but I've never seen a truly impaired person jump. Now a hint of alcohol on the plane sure, but who knows if that was someone sweating out the night before, or an impaired jumper. If I smelled it, my head was on a swivel.

If I was aware of one on a load, either they would get off the plane, or I would. If either didn't work, that would be my last jump there.

Where I used to jump any drug use simply wasn't tolerated, even in the tent/camping area after hours. If the DZO found out, that person(s) was gone no matter who they were, physically removed if necessary. If he caught you drinking before the beer light was on, you were gone too, and for good reason.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[jakee 1,596]

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What is the point of smoking a joint and not becoming impaired? Specially if we take medicinal use out of the equation and compare recreational alcohol use to recreational weed use.

It doesn't matter what the point is. Why are you being so obtuse?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,465]

jakee

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What is the point of smoking a joint and not becoming impaired? Specially if we take medicinal use out of the equation and compare recreational alcohol use to recreational weed use.

It doesn't matter what the point is. Why are you being so obtuse?

For this argument it does. If there is no other point than my original point stands. You are saying it doesn't. Not sure what is obtuse about that.

[jakee 1,596]

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I'm a bit more in tune with detecting drug/alcohol use, I've never really had a problem. At certain DZ's the smell around camping area can be interesting, but I've never seen a truly impaired person jump. Now a hint of alcohol on the plane sure, but who knows if that was someone sweating out the night before, or an impaired jumper. If I smelled it, my head was on a swivel.

The thing is, a dude who's 'sweating it out from the night before' may well still be impaired. And there while there may well be cultural differences from country to country the majority of people I've seen skydiving while impaired were people still drunk from the night before (yep, if you wake up with a bad hangover you are almost certainly still drunk).

And while I've met a lot of jumpers who take drugs, and a few take drugs during the day I've only met one who is a coach and instructor (pretty well known guy) and is baked or tripping 24/7.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

SkyDekker

***

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What is the point of smoking a joint and not becoming impaired? Specially if we take medicinal use out of the equation and compare recreational alcohol use to recreational weed use.

It doesn't matter what the point is. Why are you being so obtuse?

For this argument it does. If there is no other point than my original point stands. You are saying it doesn't. Not sure what is obtuse about that.

Because a toke on a joint is a toke on a joint whether you're being social or wanting to get stoned and a glass of wine is a glass of wine whether you want the taste or you want the booze. The THC doesn't give a fuck why it's in your system and the alcohol doesn't give a fuck why it's in your system - the effect is the same. Intent is irrelevant.

So either you don't believe someone can smoke without smoking a whole joint in which case you're naive, or you're deliberately avoiding owning your original statement in which case you're being obtuse.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skycop 0]

That's why I said head on a swivel, the night before can cause impairment. I've had guys with blood alcohol levels above .10 the following afternoon, especially the professional drinker types.

I had a guy on parole once, who turned himself in, was walking and talking fairly normally. He reeked of alcohol and his eyes were red, but that was about it. He blew a .34, when I tested him again he was a .35, still on his way up.

I asked him why he turned himself in, he said he had just drank an entire bottle of Jack Daniels, and if he didn't go back to prison he would drink himself to death.

I've smelled alcohol on loads, but just a whisp, and I couldn't tell where is was coming from (may have been me from the night before)....... I've never jumped with a guy who reeked and was impaired, nor would I.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So either you don't believe someone can smoke without smoking a whole joint in which case you're naive, or you're deliberately avoiding owning your original statement in which case you're being obtuse.

Ah ok, I get it now.

Yes you are absolutely correct that you can have one minor toke and not get impaired.

Now when we look at normal, recreational use of both substances, using weed and trying not to get stoned is not a very common occurrence. At least not that I am aware off.

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Intent is irrelevant.

Uhm, no. Intent is not irrelevant at all. Actually intent goes directly to the point I was trying to make. The way I see it, the intent of recreational weed use is to get stoned. It is the purpose of using it. That is exactly where I personally see the difference with alcohol and why I said I certainly see a difference between consuming alcohol and weed.

[jakee 1,596]

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Now when we look at normal, recreational use of both substances, using weed and trying not to get stoned is not a very common occurrence. At least not that I am aware off.

About as rare as trying not to get at all buzzed from drinking alcohol. Unless you know of many DZ based wine tasting groups who are swilling and spitting?

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Uhm, no. Intent is not irrelevant at all. Actually intent goes directly to the point I was trying to make

Well, there's the point you were trying to make and there's the thing you actually said.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kawisixer01 0]

You guys can argue the nuances of the drug stuff all you want, but I think the main issue of the post and the story is that here is this dude publicly burning many folks who probably treated him very well and did a lot to make sure he was trained well, and safely. They likely did so in a very patriotic and supportive manner. It's pretty shitty for him to go and burn his former trainers, partners, and vendors. It does nobody any good, and will likely result in some very hurt feelings, burned bridges, and damaged personal and business relationships all around, that will require a great deal of work to repair. Many of these partnerships and relationships have taken years to build, and are based highly upon trust. Nothing will burn that trust and good vibe like unappreciative bullshit like this tool taking unsubstantiated claims to the national media.

[normiss 897]

Bingo.

[brenthutch 444]

gowlerk

***I understand what he is saying. When I was instructing, coaching, exhibition jumping, etc., I attempted to make the event as militarily structured as possible.

Some skydivers add a level of caution for the sport parachutists to observe and incorporate. I always described myself as a sport parachutist.

Agreed. There is no doubt that the military conduct their operations with more discipline. It's unfortunate that he spoke as he did on camera.

Agreed,
During my first civilian jump I was shocked to see parachutes being packed on the ground. I was even more ill at ease when I saw an old guy with a funny laugh packing the rig I was about to jump in the grass......that guy......Dave DeWolf!

[tikl68 6]

I have jumped at and or worked for 3 big west coast DZS including the one this guy is shitting on. They do random drug tests and do not condone that type of behavior. If you reek in the morning like brewery you get the day off. I also have friends that work at the DZ and dont know of any instructors that partake.They are pretty professional there. As far as your statement about drugs being rampant in skydiving,imo, you are wrong. I have done my share of smoking the ganja in my younger days and it is in all aspects of life and sports and you would be surprised to find out that more successful/business owners,athletes, partake and still function and remain successful and productive than you think. I dont condone that shit either on the clock, but if you are responsible what you do on your time is your business, just keep it on YOUR time. There are plenty of people who can smoke a joint and still be more under control/functional(but still should not jump even fun jumpers) than somebody who has had 3-4 glasses of wine. The smoker does not stagger, and there are coordination differences between the two,they affect people in a different way.

[winsor 236]

normiss

I saw a TON more drug abuse in the Navy than I've seen in skydiving.
Including alcohol. To me I see no difference in weed and alcohol though I would prefer a stoner over a drunk.
Dog runs through the barracks always scared me - two roommates were major dealers on base. Apparently dogs can't smell LSD, though I rarely saw them make it past the lobby area due to people dumping drugs once word came that the dogs were coming (we always had advance notice too).

At the end of AIT the DIs announced that there would be a shakedown inspection to find contraband in the barracks. They said that there would be a grace period during which anyone could put extra gear, intoxicants and whatnot in the middle of the hall and, if they deemed it sufficient, the shakedown would be skipped.

Having made friends with some of the cooks and medics, I came up with a collection of used hypodermics, white powders (baking powder, confectioner's sugar, etc.), various tablets (aspirin, vitamins, etc.), and green, leafy stuff (parsley, oregano, etc.), and salted the limited assortment of legitimate contraband with quite a few of these props.

As we stood at attention in front of our doors, our instructional cadre ignored all of the real contraband and showed a combination of shock and horror at the "drugs/paraphernalia" that was evident.

I thought it was pretty funny, but have since learned that the appearance of misbehavior is often as bad as, or worse than, the real thing.

[kallend 2,150]

I am shocked, SHOCKED.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.