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billvon

2015 sets new record for warming

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gowlerk

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Have you read anything about the effect these rules would have had they been allowed to move forward?



I only vaguely know that they would have been difficult and expensive to implement and would result in needing to replace many of them with other sources. I don't know what percentage.

But this is where the real debate should be. What to do? How far to go and how fast. What policies are worth the price and what are not. There are many good reasons to reduce coal consumption, but I agree, it can't be done too quickly. The argument should be over how quickly. There are valid points each way.

But there is no argument warming is real. And I'd like to move past that. Watt likes to poke holes in the details of how things are measured. But he ignores the big picture. Sea levels are up, glaciers are retreating, CO2 is increasing. Who cares about the small details of where monitoring stations are located? It's a global, not a local phenomenon.



You muddy the debate when you say we know warming is real

It infers way too much
And it is intended to do just that

The real fact is, the climate changes. That is what it does. It has been doing it for eons and will continue doing it as far as anyone can imagine

So, a climate that is changing is not an issue other than we have to adapt to said change

That said

What you refer to are changes you think to be man made, correct?

And at this point you have no idea if the changes we are said to be seeing are natural or man caused

I do not think we can cause an effect to the scale the warmists claim.

And they sure as hell have not proved anything either
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

******How about that airplane.



As Al Gore would say, "do as I say not as I do".

Of course he does not want to talk about the extra CO2 to build the garage his MG is in. Or the hanger his airplane is in. Let alone the power and or energy is takes to secure the airport for boys and their toys

I wonder if either is in a heated garage???

Nope. The garage is 84 years old and unheated. The hangar is older than the plane, and unheated. The airport fence has been there since before I was a pilot. The plane probably gets better gas mileage than your car.

You are grasping at straws because you work for a company that admits it spews millions of TONS of CO2 into the air each year.
Next.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I give up. You have chosen what you want to believe. The evidence and opinions that Watt bring to you carry more weight than those of the many who are actually educated and study this. I could waste more of my time explaining that yes, the climate has changed before and will continue, but that the rate of change, in just a few decades is unprecedented. And that CO2 levels are easily measured and also rapidly increasing. But you won't care, you have decided.

Just don't expect to be part of the real debate about what will happen to those power plants if that is all you can bring to the table. All you are is an ineffective sniper sitting on the sidelines expressing your frustration to a wider world that is laughing at you.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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billvon

>Power available. 24/7/365.

Got one of those in my garage. And it doesn't kill anyone, which is a nice plus.


It also selfishly benefits only you!
You are rich enough to make sure you cover your own ass

Cheap energy has saved thousands of lives over the decades

Your energy source only benefits you


BTW
There is changes coming
Yep, In CA too
That are going to cost people like you money
and it is a good thing
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I give up. You have chosen what you want to believe. The evidence and opinions that Watt bring to you carry more weight than those of the many who are actually educated and study this.




Both a cop out and

Right back at ya

And you are still ignoring who and what Watt is

Typical.........
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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It must really really suck for you when the Watts site references journals like this. Oh so painful. but then of course I am not in the real debate:S
And if it is you laughing at me??? When then lets carry on:)

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Climate researchers have published a new paper this week in the journal Nature Climate Change that acknowledges there has been a global warming slowdown from 2000-2014. Their research shows a hiatus did indeed occur and continued into the 21st century, contradicting another study last June that said the hiatus was just an artifact that “vanishes when biases in temperature data are corrected.” This is not the first time activists have tried to hide the hiatus by using dodgy methods. –Thomas Richard,


"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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SkyDekker

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You are rich enough to make sure you cover your own ass



How is this a problem? If poor people are just too lazy to make money, how can you then get upset when somebody has money and spends it on himself only?



Got no problem with that at all
Until he starts pushing policy that does not affect him but it hard on others

Bottom line
What he is doing is going to cost him more money in the not too distant future
Unless he completely disconnects from the grid
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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>It also selfishly benefits only you!

Nope, benefits the grid as well. I generate most of my power around 1pm when demand peaks. My biggest load comes at about 1am when demand is lowest (EV and house battery charge times.) If everyone had a system like mine, loads would be lower and more even, stress on the grid would be reduced and the utility could shut down power plants. Costs would go down and reliability would go up.

Indeed, during the day on a sunny day I am generating about 7 kilowatts - which means I am powering the six or seven homes closest to me as well as my own.

How about yourself and your company? How many people has it killed?

>BTW
>There is changes coming

There "is changes coming" indeed:
===================
State’s last coal power plant to be replaced with natural gas

By Reece Alvarez
February 25, 2016
Westfairl

Owners of the last coal-fired power plant in Connecticut, Public Service Enterprise Group (PSEG), have announced plans to replace the Bridgeport Harbor Station power plant with a natural gas-fired facility by the end of the decade after more than 50 years of providing energy to the region.
===================
China aims to shut down 1,000 coal mines this year
by Cat DiStasio
Inhabit.com

The world’s biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions plans to shutter a thousand coal mines before the end of this year. China’s National Energy Administration made the announcement Monday, as part of the country’s larger goal to reduce carbon pollution 60 percent by 2020. Shutting down coal mines is just the tip of the iceberg in China’s ongoing efforts to reduce the country’s carbon emissions.

China has a long history with air pollution and other environmental problems that have negatively impacted public health. The country’s leaders plan to shut down 60 million metric tons of coal production this year. Over the course of the next three to five years, another 500 million will be taken offline, mostly by targeting small or older mines. An additional 500 million tons will be cut by consolidating producers and improving efficiency.

Reuters reported that half of China’s 10,760 coal mines will eventually have to close, based on estimates from the China National Coal Association. Last year, China announced plans to introduce a cap-and-trade program in 2017 to help cut down on carbon emissions. The motivations for addressing pollution come months after smog reached peak levels, and Chinese officials are now challenged to make big changes in accord with the Paris climate deal, which was signed in December.
===================

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billvon

>It also selfishly benefits only you!

Nope, benefits the grid as well. I generate most of my power around 1pm when demand peaks. My biggest load comes at about 1am when demand is lowest (EV and house battery charge times.) If everyone had a system like mine, loads would be lower and more even, stress on the grid would be reduced and the utility could shut down power plants. Costs would go down and reliability would go up.

Indeed, during the day on a sunny day I am generating about 7 kilowatts - which means I am powering the six or seven homes closest to me as well as my own.

How about yourself and your company? How many people has it killed?

>BTW
>There is changes coming

There "is changes coming" indeed:
===================
State’s last coal power plant to be replaced with natural gas

By Reece Alvarez
February 25, 2016
Westfairl

Owners of the last coal-fired power plant in Connecticut, Public Service Enterprise Group (PSEG), have announced plans to replace the Bridgeport Harbor Station power plant with a natural gas-fired facility by the end of the decade after more than 50 years of providing energy to the region.
===================
China aims to shut down 1,000 coal mines this year
by Cat DiStasio
Inhabit.com

The world’s biggest source of carbon dioxide emissions plans to shutter a thousand coal mines before the end of this year. China’s National Energy Administration made the announcement Monday, as part of the country’s larger goal to reduce carbon pollution 60 percent by 2020. Shutting down coal mines is just the tip of the iceberg in China’s ongoing efforts to reduce the country’s carbon emissions.

China has a long history with air pollution and other environmental problems that have negatively impacted public health. The country’s leaders plan to shut down 60 million metric tons of coal production this year. Over the course of the next three to five years, another 500 million will be taken offline, mostly by targeting small or older mines. An additional 500 million tons will be cut by consolidating producers and improving efficiency.

Reuters reported that half of China’s 10,760 coal mines will eventually have to close, based on estimates from the China National Coal Association. Last year, China announced plans to introduce a cap-and-trade program in 2017 to help cut down on carbon emissions. The motivations for addressing pollution come months after smog reached peak levels, and Chinese officials are now challenged to make big changes in accord with the Paris climate deal, which was signed in December.
===================



You are mixing issues
You currently pay nothing to maintain that grid
Correct?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Got no problem with that at all
Until he starts pushing policy that does not affect him but it hard on others



But if those other people weren't so damn lazy, they would be rich enough to do the same thing and whatever policy you think he is pushing wouldn't effect them.

So it is still a moot point if you believe poor people are just lazy.

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SkyDekker

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Got no problem with that at all
Until he starts pushing policy that does not affect him but it hard on others



But if those other people weren't so damn lazy, they would be rich enough to do the same thing and whatever policy you think he is pushing wouldn't effect them.

So it is still a moot point if you believe poor people are just lazy.



As usual - your attempt to deliberately misunderstand the context of the discussion and try to change the subject is as annoying as when I do it.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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SkyDekker

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Got no problem with that at all
Until he starts pushing policy that does not affect him but it hard on others



But if those other people weren't so damn lazy, they would be rich enough to do the same thing and whatever policy you think he is pushing wouldn't effect them.

So it is still a moot point if you believe poor people are just lazy.


Strawman
I know many people who work very hard yet have very little. You do too!

I am not sure why you are so focused on lazy??????



Now, stop trying to read minds again and have a grown up conversation:)
You can do it!


Ok

Today, anyone who connects to the grid, pays for the maintenance of that grid via dollars spent purchasing kwhs.

If, like Bill, he ends up purchasing no power because of what he can generate, well fine. Except, he now needs to pay what can be called an excess facility fee for being connected. He knows he can not make what he needs 24/7

He can generate excess when the wind is blowing or the sun is out but, cloudy windless days means he may need to draw from the grid.
That is fine. The company I am working for is aggressively working to upgrade the grid to support the level of distributed generation of the type Bill would propose. That said, electric system grids are not cheap to build or maintain. Therefore, those who have enough means (like Bill) will be, or should be, paying for maintenance of that grid through an interconnect or attachment fee.


Now, there are different kinds of tariffs that address distributed generation. (and I do now know what type Bill is connected to)

There are the tariffs where generators like Bill can only net zero their bill for a given year. Example, if they use 100kwh from the grid for the year and put 200kwh back on the grid, they still only zero their bill for that time period. That is how Iowa is at this time. This is changing however.
Or, generators like Bill, can sell the power they generate on the grid. The price they receive should NEVER be more that what the grid operator can generate it for, or purchased for, during given period. that price can swing wildly BTW. But this tariff allows the generator to make money on the excess power he generates.
Either way the cost of the grid connected to needs to be taken into account. Since this is so new, MOST utilities have not yet addressed this inequity to it's customer base.
And I mean not addressed to either those that do have generation and those who don't. There are arguments to be made for both sides.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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turtlespeed

***

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Got no problem with that at all
Until he starts pushing policy that does not affect him but it hard on others



But if those other people weren't so damn lazy, they would be rich enough to do the same thing and whatever policy you think he is pushing wouldn't effect them.

So it is still a moot point if you believe poor people are just lazy.


As usual - your attempt to deliberately misunderstand the context of the discussion and try to change the subject is as annoying as when I do it.

He is in his gottcha mode (I am guessing) but nobody is biting in his stink bait:)
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I know many people who work very hard yet have very little. You do too!

I am not sure why you are so focused on lazy????



Because whenever we talk about welfare or poverty on these forums, people like you and turtle are pretty vocal about how poor people wouldn't be poor if they just worked a little harder.

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SkyDekker

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I know many people who work very hard yet have very little. You do too!

I am not sure why you are so focused on lazy????



Because whenever we talk about welfare or poverty on these forums, people like you and turtle are pretty vocal about how poor people wouldn't be poor if they just worked a little harder.


:D:D

See turtle!!!

Stink bait:D

Just means he has nothing for the topic
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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rushmc

I really love the "people like you" comment in his post!!!

Fucking classic!

:D



Well he's liberal, so he's exempt from hypocrisy.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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SkyDekker

******I really love the "people like you" comment in his post!!!

Fucking classic!

:D



Well he's liberal, so he's exempt from hypocrisy.

I will have to classify that statement Lie To Myself. Liberal in the US, conservative in Canada.

FTFY!:P
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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normiss

I believe the wording was "everyone can do it".
:S



Do you not think it is a good ideal to subscribe to? Or do you favor the other side of the coin where the system supports you and yours?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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