How Much Clinton is too Much Clinton

[RopeaDope 0]

Not that any other candidates are impressing me very much, but how much longer does this family need to hold the highest power positions in our country?

http://www.clintonmemoriallibrary.com/clintcrimefamily.html

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

2. Benghazi: 4 Americans KIA, due to negligence. Weak diplomatic security practices. Initially lied to American people about the situation

3. Asia fundraising scandal: More than 50 convicted in a scandal that made Lincoln bedroom, White House coffees, Buddhist monks infamous.

4. Hillary’s private emails: Leakage of classified information, not maintaining archives that could be used in future criminal hearings

5. Whitewater: A large S&L failed and several people went to prison.

6. Travelgate: The firing of the career travel office was the very first crony capitalism scandal of the Clinton era.

7. Humagate: An aide’s sweetheart job arrangement. If some of the rumors are true, it certainly explains a lot about these two couples

8. Pardongate: The first time donations were ever connected as possible motives for presidential pardons.

9. Foundation favors: Revealing evidence that the Clinton Foundation was a pay-to-play back door to the State Department, and an open checkbook for foreigners to curry favor.

10. Mysterious files: The disappearance and re-discovery of Hillary’s Rose Law Firm records. She didn't know they existed (FBI found her finger prints all over them)

11. Filegate: The Clinton illegal use of FBI files to dig for dirt on their enemies.

12. Hubble trouble: The resignation and imprisonment of Hillary law partner Web Hubbell.

13. The Waco tragedy: One of the most lethal exercises of police power in American history. Followed by controversy and cover-ups. Janet Reno was able to blackmail Clinto into reappointing her and promoting the person in charge of Waco incident.

14. The Clinton’s Swedish slush fund: $26 million collected overseas with little accountability and lots of questions about whether contributors got a pass on Iran sanctions.

15. Troopergate: From the good old days, did Arkansas state troopers facilitate Bill Clinton’s philandering? (One of Bill's sexual assault victims)

16. Gennifer Flowers: The tale that catapulted a supermarket tabloid into the big time. One of Bill's long time mistresses.

17. Bill’s Golden Tongue: His and her speech fees shocked the American public. Over $89 million made by Bill alone.

18. Boeing Bucks: Boeing contributed big-time to Bill; Hillary helped the company obtain a profitable Russian contract.

19. Larry Lawrence: How did a fat cat donor get buried in Arlington National Cemetery without war experience?

20. The cattle futures: Hillary as commodity trader extraordinaire.

21. Chinagate: Nuclear secrets go to China on her husband’s watch.

22. Vince Foster Jr. Mystery - Questions cloud the suicide of Vince Foster, former colleague, friend, and White House aid  of Hillary’s who had connections to Travelgate, and the Whitewater scandals.

23. Lootergate - Bill and especially Hillary started to ship White House furniture to their personal home in Chappaqua, N.Y.. The Clintons claimed they were donated them, and not the White House. After contacting the donors, the Clintons have since returned most of the items taken from the WH.

24. Drug Dealer Donor Scandal - Convicted drug trafficker Jorge Cabrera apparently made such a big donation to the Clinton’s campaign that he was invited to the White house without Secret Service present.

25. Ponzi Scheme and Political Favor Scandal - Norman Yung Yuen Hsu was a convicted pyramid investment promoter, and major Democratic donor. He contributed an undisclosed amount to Hillary Clinton’s 2008 campaign.

[quade 4]

I'm not even sure where to start here. Do I begin with you're facts not being correct? Sure let's go with that.

Quote

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

No. He wasn't. He was the third. That said, he was also not found guilty, so who cares?

Andrew Johnson was also not found guilty. The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Considering your first point is so wildly inaccurate, I'm not going to address the other 24 points. I assume you've taken exactly as much care and researched them just as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Paul,

Quote

The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

My memory is not perfect; but, didn't Nixon resign due to impending possible impeachment?

Your thoughts?

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Nixon was never impeached. He resigned and got a pre-emptive pardon from Ford.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RopeaDope 0]

quade

I'm not even sure where to start here. Do I begin with you're facts not being correct? Sure let's go with that.

Quote

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

No. He wasn't. He was the third. That said, he was also not found guilty, so who cares?

Andrew Johnson was also not found guilty. The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Considering your first point is so wildly inaccurate, I'm not going to address the other 24 points. I assume you've taken exactly as much care and researched them just as well.

Only two presidents have been impeached in United States history, and neither was convicted of the charges filed against him. No president has been convicted of the charges filed against him during impeachment proceedings.

President Andrew Johnson, the 17th president of the United States, was accused of violating the Tenure of Office Act. The 1867 required Senate approval before a president could remove any member of his cabinet who had been confirmed by the upper chamber of Congress.

The House impeached Johnson on February 24, 1868, three days after he dumped his secretary of war, a radical Republican named Edwin M. Stanton, allegedly in violation of the Tenure of Office Act. The U.S. Senate acquitted Johnson later that year by a narrow margin.

Johnson was spared conviction and ouster from office by a single vote.

President Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives. Clinton, the nation's 42nd president, was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, for allegedly misleading a grand jury about his extramarital affair with Lewinsky in the White House, and then persuading others to lie about it, too.

The charges against Clinton were perjury and obstruction of justice.

After a trial, the Senate acquitted Clinton of both charges on February 12. He went on to apologize for the affair and complete his second term in office, telling a captivated and polarized American public: "Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible."

Richard M. Nixon, was certain to be impeached and convicted in 1974 but the 37th president of the United States resigned before he was to face prosecution over the 1972 break-in at the Democratic Party's headquarters in what became known as the Watergate scandal.



Impeachment is a very somber process in American politics, one that has been used sparingly and with the knowledge that lawmakers enter it with an extraordinary burden of proof. The result, the removal of an American president chosen by the citizenry, is unprecedented. Only the most serious of offenses should ever be pursued under mechanisms for impeaching a president, and they are spelled out in the Constitution of the United States: "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

Maybe you should just not bother fact checking anyone, since you clearly don't know very much about American history.

Anyways, my point was that, IMO, the 35+ year political dynasty of the Clinton household is just too tainted to continue using the American people for personal and financial gain. It's time for someone less stagnant to get into office. - And now, I digress.

[masterblaster72 0]

Better than Jeb Bush, that's all I can say. Even the Clinton family is less "stale" than that one.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Amazon 7]

RopeaDope

***I'm not even sure where to start here. Do I begin with you're facts not being correct? Sure let's go with that.

Quote

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

No. He wasn't. He was the third. That said, he was also not found guilty, so who cares?

Andrew Johnson was also not found guilty. The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Considering your first point is so wildly inaccurate, I'm not going to address the other 24 points. I assume you've taken exactly as much care and researched them just as well.

Only two presidents have been impeached in United States history, and neither was convicted of the charges filed against him. No president has been convicted of the charges filed against him during impeachment proceedings.

President Andrew Johnson, the 17th president of the United States, was accused of violating the Tenure of Office Act. The 1867 required Senate approval before a president could remove any member of his cabinet who had been confirmed by the upper chamber of Congress.

The House impeached Johnson on February 24, 1868, three days after he dumped his secretary of war, a radical Republican named Edwin M. Stanton, allegedly in violation of the Tenure of Office Act. The U.S. Senate acquitted Johnson later that year by a narrow margin.

Johnson was spared conviction and ouster from office by a single vote.

President Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives. Clinton, the nation's 42nd president, was impeached by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, for allegedly misleading a grand jury about his extramarital affair with Lewinsky in the White House, and then persuading others to lie about it, too.

The charges against Clinton were perjury and obstruction of justice.

After a trial, the Senate acquitted Clinton of both charges on February 12. He went on to apologize for the affair and complete his second term in office, telling a captivated and polarized American public: "Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible."

Richard M. Nixon, was certain to be impeached and convicted in 1974 but the 37th president of the United States resigned before he was to face prosecution over the 1972 break-in at the Democratic Party's headquarters in what became known as the Watergate scandal.



Impeachment is a very somber process in American politics, one that has been used sparingly and with the knowledge that lawmakers enter it with an extraordinary burden of proof. The result, the removal of an American president chosen by the citizenry, is unprecedented. Only the most serious of offenses should ever be pursued under mechanisms for impeaching a president, and they are spelled out in the Constitution of the United States: "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

Maybe you should just not bother fact checking anyone, since you clearly don't know very much about American history.

Anyways, my point was that, IMO, the 35+ year political dynasty of the Clinton household is just too tainted to continue using the American people for personal and financial gain. It's time for someone less stagnant to get into office. - And now, I digress.

Perhaps all men who have had affairs should be immediately fired from their jobs. How would that solution work for you.

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

Perhaps all men who have had affairs should be immediately fired from their jobs. How would that solution work for you.

I think that's acceptable for certain jobs like the presidency, clergy and other leadership roles where one's character is expected to be above reproach.

On the other hand however, I wouldn't want to see a woman lose her job because of infidelity as much as I would want to see her cry for losing her job because of infidelity.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Amazon 7]

Coreeece

***Perhaps all men who have had affairs should be immediately fired from their jobs. How would that solution work for you.

I think that's acceptable for certain jobs like the presidency, clergy and other leadership roles where one's character is expected to be above reproach.

On the other hand however, I wouldn't want to see a woman lose her job because of infidelity as much as I would want to see her cry for losing her job because of infidelity.

How about we add in all those who blither about "Family Values" while waiting for the RAPTURE

[kallend 2,148]

So?

Thomas Jefferson fucked his female slaves and fathered children by one of them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kawisixer01 0]

I've said it before and ill say it again. Ponder that we have 319 million folks in this country, yet we continue to put the same families in positions of power. Here we are again, Clinton and Bush. Really? That's the best we can come up with out of 319 million people for 20 years? We have no hunger for fresh ideas and people? Our founders set sail and fought like hell to get the hell away from Monarchy, yet here we are with virtually the same shit. We'll wonder why we have the problems we do with out of touch politicians, yet we continue to enable career politicians. It's nothing less than disgusting.

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

I'm not even sure where to start here. Do I begin with you're facts not being correct? Sure let's go with that.

Quote

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

No. He wasn't. He was the third. That said, he was also not found guilty, so who cares?

Andrew Johnson was also not found guilty. The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Considering your first point is so wildly inaccurate, I'm not going to address the other 24 points. I assume you've taken exactly as much care and researched them just as well.

Negative ghost rider . . . Check your own facts before you check others.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RopeaDope 0]

masterblaster72

Better than Jeb Bush, that's all I can say. Even the Clinton family is less "stale" than that one.

Yes, the Bush family is another long standing political dynasty, BUT, the extended Bush family with two separate administrations has nary the scandal of Bill and Hillary.

I'm not endorsing Jeb, as kawisixer01 puts it, 319 million people and these two families are the best we can do?

I would however point out the badassedness of George H. W. Enraged by the attack on Purl Harbor, he enlisted in the Navy and became their youngest aviator ever. He flew 58 combat sorties in the Pacific Theater, where he successfully completed one bombing run with his engine on fire from Japanese AA guns. He then bailed out into the ocean and was rescued by a submarine.

He then went to Yale, enrolling in an accelerated program so he could get his degree in 2.5 years. During those 2.5 years, he was captain of the Yale baseball team, where he played first base in the first two College World Series, President of the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity, a member of the Skull and Bones, and graduated as a Phi Betta Kappa.

He then entered the oil business as a sales clerk, but with 5 years, co-founded his own petroleum corporation and became a millionaire.

In is political career, he was a congressman, senator, ambassador to the UN, director of the CIA, Vice President, and President. - not a bad resume.

Amazon- Bills philandering doesn't concern me, the perjury, obstruction of federal investigations, fraud, manipulation, deceit, and gross negligence is what concerns me.

Kallend- The Jefferson issue is speculation. A person made accusations after Jefferson denied him a position as the Post Master General. Some scholars believe it never happened and some believe he had a long term relationship with one of them after his wife died.

[quade 4]

turtlespeed

***I'm not even sure where to start here. Do I begin with you're facts not being correct? Sure let's go with that.

Quote

1. Monica Lewinsky: Bill was second president impeached in U.S. history

No. He wasn't. He was the third. That said, he was also not found guilty, so who cares?

Andrew Johnson was also not found guilty. The only President to be impeached AND found guilty was Nixon.

Considering your first point is so wildly inaccurate, I'm not going to address the other 24 points. I assume you've taken exactly as much care and researched them just as well.

Negative ghost rider . . . Check your own facts before you check others.

Nixon was impeached in the House, fact, and did not have the votes to prevent removal from office, fact.

He resigned before being forcibly removed from office by a near certain vote in the Senate. I'll give you that. However, he was absolutely impeached in the House AND found guilty.

http://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment
http://watergate.info/impeachment/analysis-judiciary-committee-impeachment-votes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmYedO4nogk

Anyone who believes otherwise is a victim of brainwashing and revisionist history.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Paul,

Quote

Nixon was impeached

Thanks, Paul. I had completely forgotten about that.

Memory cells going bad day by day,

Jerry Baumchen

[RopeaDope 0]

***Nixon was impeached in the House, fact, and did not have the votes to prevent removal from office, fact.

He resigned before being forcibly removed from office by a near certain vote in the Senate. I'll give you that. However, he was absolutely impeached in the House AND found guilty.

http://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment
http://watergate.info/impeachment/analysis-judiciary-committee-impeachment-votes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmYedO4nogk

Anyone who believes otherwise is a victim of brainwashing and revisionist history.

Here is the last part of your article (the part you left out)

Wherefore, Richard M. Nixon, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial and removal from office.

(Approved 21-17 by the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday, July 30, 1974.)

Consequences:

On August 5, 1974, the long sought after audio tapes provided the "smoking gun" which revealed President Nixon had been deeply involved in the coverup and had ordered Haldeman to halt the FBI investigation just six days after the Watergate break-in."...call the FBI and say that we wish, for the country, don't go any further into this case, period..." -- Nixon to Haldeman, June 23, 1972.)

That revelation resulted in a complete collapse of support for Nixon in Congress. On Friday, August 9, Nixon resigned the presidency and avoided the likely prospect of losing the impeachment vote in the full House and a subsequent trial in the Senate. He thus became the only U.S. President ever to resign. Vice President Gerald R. Ford succeeded him and a month later granted Nixon a full pardon for any crimes he might have committed while President.

Richard Nixon had served a total of 2,026 days as the 37th President of the United States. He left office with 2 1/2 years of his second term remaining. A total of 25 officials from his administration, including four cabinet members, were eventually convicted and imprisoned for various crimes.

Your links show the "impeachment charges." The impeachment never happened. This is taught in 3rd or 4th grade history classes.

[quade 4]

Well, I guess you must be right then. Nixon obviously didn't do anything wrong (according to the brainwashers).

The Texas schoolbook program seems to be working.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Amazon 7]

Yet I would lay odds you voted for Numbnutz and the Bimbo.....

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

Well, I guess you must be right then. Nixon obviously didn't do anything wrong (according to the brainwashers).

The Texas schoolbook program seems to be working.

It's not about what he did or if he did something illegal.

He was never formally impeached.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,588]

Few people have disagreements with GHWB other than political and policy. He was an honorable and straight-up president.
The Clinton "scandals" were largely (though not entirely) blown up by outraged people who were looking for things to hang on them. They were no more significant than "GWB walked out of the National Guard" or "GWB was an alcoholic" or "Laura Bush was the driver in a fatal accident." Those are all true or interpretations as well, and while some consider them to be "scandals," it's just BS, and examples of the kinds of things that nearly every adult has in their background.

For instance, I have none of those specific issues in my background, but it would be possible to find things that could be trumped up. And I'm sure that just about every other adult on here has stuff in their background.

None of it was anything like Nixon; a generation earlier, much of that just wasn't addressed by the press as part of privacy. Look at philandering that went on with Kennedy, Eisenhower and Roosevelt; all the really awful stuff during Harding (which was closer to the perversion of power under Nixon).

Calling something a scandal doesn't really make it one. Saying it again and again and again and again doesn't change it, it just changes the perception of people who listen to news for their information.

Everything includes perspective and context. It's impossible to present every single piece of ancillary information. So scandal is best judged by history, just as whether a president is good or bad. Consider the downstream effects of decisions or actions, and just do the best you can.

Which is why, to me, the decision to invade Iraq, and particularly when we were already in Afghanistan, was almost criminal. It showed no thought about likely results of the actions.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

Nixon was impeached in the House, fact,

Quade - you don't know how impeachment works.

The House Judiciary Committee is not the House. You're in a hole, stop digging.

Quote

However, he was absolutely impeached in the House AND found guilty.

He absolutely was not.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

Well, I guess you must be right then.

He is right.

Quote

Nixon obviously didn't do anything wron

Nixon's guilt has nothing to do with it. Stop being so petulant.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 4]

jakee

The House Judiciary Committee is not the House.

You're right. It's the Judiciary Committee for the HOUSE. It held IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS and voted to convict on two out of three counts.

That is, in fact, how this works. Nixon was subject to an IMPEACHMENT trial in the HOUSE. He was IMPEACHED.

The only thing stopping him from being forcibly removed from office was he resigned before the formality of the Senate doing the same.

Everything else is simply a whitewash of the facts. It's like saying a murderer who has been indicted is somehow absolved of his sins simply because he commits suicide the night before sentencing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,148]

RopeaDope

Kallend- The Jefferson issue is speculation. A person made accusations after Jefferson denied him a position as the Post Master General. Some scholars believe it never happened and some believe he had a long term relationship with one of them after his wife died.

Nope. DNA testing has proved that he fathered children by Sally Hemings. Even the Thomas Jefferson Foundation concluded in 2012 "evidence strongly supports the conclusion that Jefferson was the father of Sally Hemings' children."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,595]

Quote

You're right. It's the Judiciary Committee for the HOUSE. It held IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS and voted to convict on two out of three counts.

So, if a Grand Jury votes to indict you that means you've been convicted of a crime, does it?

Quote

That is, in fact, how this works. Nixon was subject to an IMPEACHMENT trial in the HOUSE. He was IMPEACHED.

That is, in fact, not how it works. Nixon was subject to impeachment hearing by the Judiciary Committee, whose job it is to decide if the full House should should vote on whether he shoud be impeached. He was NOT IMPEACHED.

If you don't believe me, here is the third sentence of the Wikipedia article on Nixon's impeachment proceedings: "The impeachment resolutions were never considered by the full House...."

Quote

The only thing stopping him from being forcibly removed from office was he resigned before the formality of the Senate doing the same.

The only thing stopping him from being forcibly removed from office is that he resigned before being impeached by the House, which had to happen before the formality of the senate blah blah blah.

No-one disputes that he would have been ejected from the Presidency. But the FACT remains that he was not impeached.

Quote

Everything else is simply a whitewash of the facts.

It is the truth.

Quade, you are factually wrong. It is not a matter of opinion. Stop being so petulant about it. Stop digging.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?