More mass shootings

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

*********The courts.

You make my point

You don't think the courts should be involved?

Yet, you are the first to exclaim how the Supreme Court has always upheld the 2nd amendment.

No, that is not what I am saying OR implying
Your mind reading fails you yet again

Care to try again?

You leave us no options but to try and read your mind. Your posts are either "one liners" or so poorly contructed it isn't clear what your point is.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

************The courts.

You make my point

You don't think the courts should be involved?

Yet, you are the first to exclaim how the Supreme Court has always upheld the 2nd amendment.[/quote

No, that is not what I am saying OR implying
Your mind reading fails you yet again

Care to try again?

You leave us no options but to try and read your mind. Your posts are either "one liners" or so poorly contructed it isn't clear what your point is.

Lol

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[yoink 321]

rushmc

The problem here is who defines what resonable is.

You?

Nope. I'm not an expert in home security, crime or firearms.
Likewise though, neither are you so neither of us should be trying to define it.

What we should agree on is that a definition of 'secure' should be put forward, and agree to follow that recommendation.

I'd imagine a combination of the police / FBI, professional locksmiths and the NRA would be able to put together a minimum definition of 'secure'.

If they were to say that keeping in it in a drawer in the kitchen is secure, then fair enough - I'm wrong. But I bet they wouldn't!

[Anvilbrother 0]

If the FBI etc etc agree that as long as no children enter or remain in the home a structure secured in the way I described above is considered a secure gun storage environment would you and the others go along with that?

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[yoink 321]

Yup.

If people who knew what they were talking about defined 'secure' and listed your measures then that's fine. I've seen the police specify certain types of doors and deadbolt & alarm combinations when I was a student, and I seem to remember insurance companies doing the same.

I'm not trying to keep guns away from gun owners. I'm trying to make it harder for guns to accidentally find their way into the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

Now ask if rushmc would abide by it...


Would you also agree that if those types of definitions were put in place, then there should be a penalty for irresponsible gun owners who leave their firearms easily accessible?

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

I'm trying to make it harder for guns to accidentally find their way into the hands of people who shouldn't have them.

A kid might accidentally find one, and for that i am %1000 with you lock them up, remove the bolt, use trigger lock etc.

A criminal does not accidentally trip into your front door tumble down the hall and stop at your night stand to find your gun.

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[yoink 321]

I was trying to be polite.

How about 'I'm trying to make it harder for guns to get out of the control of their proper owners, or if it does happen, then they're more difficult to use'?

[Anvilbrother 0]

I understand the intent. It is just that some methods of securing weapons satisfy some here, and some dont. This topic will never be settled here.

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[rushmc 23]

yoink

Now ask if rushmc would abide by do it...

I already do
But not for the reason being, I do not want to lose valuable property.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,080]

>None of those laws are to prevent access, theft, and use which leads to a homicide . . .

In Massachusetts, firearms are required to be stored in a locked container or with a mechanical lock on the gun itself. This would tend to prevent access, theft and use which could lead to a homicide.

[Anvilbrother 0]

billvon

>None of those laws are to prevent access, theft, and use which leads to a homicide . . .

In Massachusetts, firearms are required to be stored in a locked container or with a mechanical lock on the gun itself. This would tend to prevent access, theft and use which could lead to a homicide.

My comment was to your argument about cars. Sure there are car laws, but non of those are there to prevent access, theft, and use which leads to a homicide. So using that and comparing it to guns does not make any sense.

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[billvon 3,080]

> Sure there are car laws, but non of those are there to prevent access, theft,
>and use which leads to a homicide. So using that and comparing it to guns
>does not make any sense.

To be clear, I was not saying that guns need to have their brakes inspected. They need laws that provide for safe storage, maintenance and use of both of those things, to protect the public from their misuse.

Since cars and guns are different, the details of those laws will also be different.

[Anvilbrother 0]

billvon

>If someone accidently kills the person next door, whether with a gun or a car,
>they should be treated exactly the same way.

Agreed.

>If someone borrows or steals my car and runs over the neighbor, why is that
>different from someone handling my gun and shooting the neighbor?

It's not. Yet you still have to follow laws concerning how you maintain, inspect, register and park your car.

>But some posters, including you I thought, were in favor of holding a gun
>owner responsible if a thief steals their gun and commits a crime with it. Seems
>arbitrary to me.

No, the criminal is responsible for the crime. You are responsible for following the laws pertaining to car maintenance/registration etc (or gun safety.)

Well why even use it then.

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[billvon 3,080]

>Well why even use it then.

Because many people enjoy owning guns. They go shooting with them, enter competitions, collect them and trade them. Many people believe they are safer with guns. And whether or not that is true, that's up to them to decide.

And as long as they take care not to harm other people with those weapons, then no problem.

[normiss 860]

Replacing the words guns and weapons with cars is also quite true.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>None of those laws are to prevent access, theft, and use which leads to a homicide . . .

In Massachusetts, firearms are required to be stored in a locked container or with a mechanical lock on the gun itself. This would tend to prevent access, theft and use which could lead to a homicide.

And let us not forget that it makes it easier of someone who practices home invations.

Nothing like looking out for the perp!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,080]

>And let us not forget that it makes it easier of someone who practices home invations.

Right. Best to leave your gun out, so the perp can get his hands on it. Nothing like arming criminals to make your home safer!

Of course, if you survive that, you'll need another gun - and the NRA will line their wallets with a bit more cash. Suddenly I see the NRA's wisdom in opposing such legislation . . .

[Anvilbrother 0]

I get that to attack the pro gun you guys completely dismiss that a crime had to take place in order to steal the gun, and place no blame on the criminal.

It is easy to walk into a Walmart smash a glass counter and steal a gun. Where is the outcry to make them have guns in locked safes?

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[rushmc 23]

billvon

>And let us not forget that it makes it easier of someone who practices home invations.

Right. Best to leave your gun out, so the perp can get his hands on it. Nothing like arming criminals to make your home safer!

Of course, if you survive that, you'll need another gun - and the NRA will line their wallets with a bit more cash. Suddenly I see the NRA's wisdom in opposing such legislation . . .

Now here is an angle and a half


Yep
Best they be locked up so the home owner is defenseless

Nice to know who you are looking out for

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Anvilbrother

I get that to attack the pro gun you guys completely dismiss that a crime had to take place in order to steal the gun, and place no blame on the criminal.

It is easy to walk into a Walmart smash a glass counter and steal a gun. Where is the outcry to make them have guns in locked safes?

We need to remember that those who support shit like Bill posts here, push irrational solutions, which are based on emotions that come from a political agenda. Logic has NOTHING to do with any of this.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,080]

>I get that to attack the pro gun you guys completely dismiss that a crime had
>to take place in order to steal the gun, and place no blame on the criminal.

Nope. Never dismissed it. Were you answering someone else?

>It is easy to walk into a Walmart smash a glass counter and steal a gun.
>Where is the outcry to make them have guns in locked safes?

They absolutely should be locked when the store is closed. (Safe might make sense depending on the store.)

[Anvilbrother 0]

It was addressed to the other side as a whole not you in general.

At all the Walmart stores here you can walk in the tire and auto center, nearby is the sporting goods with guns behind thin plate glass with a small metal key lock. A heavy watch or nearby baseball bat would gain you quick access and egress of a number of weapons. Most of the time no one is present. And you have to ring the buzzer to get someone to come unlock or check you out at the counter.

At night they do remove them from the cabinets.

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[billvon 3,080]

>At all the Walmart stores here you can walk in the tire and auto center, nearby
>is the sporting goods with guns behind thin plate glass with a small metal key
>lock. A heavy watch or nearby baseball bat would gain you quick access and
>egress of a number of weapons. Most of the time no one is present.

Sounds like a level of caution that would be sufficient - IF someone was always in the area, and assuming the guns were not stored loaded (which I assume they are not.) Given that it's Wal-Mart I'm not surprised that it is often deserted.

>At night they do remove them from the cabinets.

Good! Sounds like they take the potential for theft (and potential misuse as a result) seriously. Does that mean they are anti-gun idiots who think that criminals are not responsible for their crimes?

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>At all the Walmart stores here you can walk in the tire and auto center, nearby
>is the sporting goods with guns behind thin plate glass with a small metal key
>lock. A heavy watch or nearby baseball bat would gain you quick access and
>egress of a number of weapons. Most of the time no one is present.

Sounds like a level of caution that would be sufficient - IF someone was always in the area, and assuming the guns were not stored loaded (which I assume they are not.) Given that it's Wal-Mart I'm not surprised that it is often deserted.

>At night they do remove them from the cabinets.

Good! Sounds like they take the potential for theft (and potential misuse as a result) seriously. Does that mean they are anti-gun idiots who think that criminals are not responsible for their crimes?

Ammo is directly below these guns in the same type of cabinet

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Anvilbrother 0]

billvon

>At all the Walmart stores here you can walk in the tire and auto center, nearby
>is the sporting goods with guns behind thin plate glass with a small metal key
>lock. A heavy watch or nearby baseball bat would gain you quick access and
>egress of a number of weapons. Most of the time no one is present.

Sounds like a level of caution that would be sufficient - IF someone was always in the area, and assuming the guns were not stored loaded (which I assume they are not.) Given that it's Wal-Mart I'm not surprised that it is often deserted.

>At night they do remove them from the cabinets.

Good! Sounds like they take the potential for theft (and potential misuse as a result) seriously. Does that mean they are anti-gun idiots who think that criminals are not responsible for their crimes?

Unsecured guns, with ammo right there. Smash and grab and you have everything you need to kill someone.

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