DJL 235 #2051 March 7, 2018 HooknswoopQuote But now you're agreeing with the argument that people don't need guns for self defense. I know you don't think that, that was kind of a "gotcha". The point being made is that these guys and most people don't live in the realm of being at risk of gun violence but that doesn't mean they don't want others to be at risk. No, I was pointing out the discrepancy in those that want gun restrictions. They do not feel unsafe walking around, but "we have to do something!". Derek V And you missed my point that regardless of how they personally feel day to day that they still don't want guns available and sustaining the current firearms related murder rate."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #2052 March 7, 2018 HooknswoopQuoteYeah a mass shooting a day really isn't such a big deal. Not compared to other cause of death statistics. Derek V And also not a big deal compared to world famine. On the other hand, a mass shooting a day is not rare. I am happy I live in a society where mass shootings are rare....not once a day "rare". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2053 March 8, 2018 gowlerkWhatcha gonna do when the thug has the drop on you? Which any armed robber is going to have. I'll bet you carry that heater around just dreaming of the day you can be a hero. But the chances are pretty good you'll be a dead hero. Tactical marksmanship is like driving ability. Nearly everyone views themselves as well above average, Dunning and Kruger being hard at work.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #2054 March 8, 2018 jcd11235***Whatcha gonna do when the thug has the drop on you? Which any armed robber is going to have. I'll bet you carry that heater around just dreaming of the day you can be a hero. But the chances are pretty good you'll be a dead hero. Tactical marksmanship is like driving ability. Nearly everyone views themselves as well above average, Dunning and Kruger being hard at work. It's a pretty shitty criminal that you see coming from a 50m away with a gun in their hand."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,176 #2055 March 8, 2018 In the debate on gun control the point is being missed that some gun owners love guns. Ron AFAIK has a concealed carry permit. So he has gone through life without any serious,or any brushes with the law. By the sounds of it he practices with guns. Gun owners like him will not be persuaded by argument relating to his lack of need. A guns danger to others. In addition magazine size restrictions have little sway. The School Shooting Solutions thread is a good start. But the NRA needs to be sat down with. When democrats hold a majority. Then tough deals reached. Many gun owners say that they won't register guns because criminals will still have access to them. The gun regulations and restrictions issue is complex. Furthermore using prisons to solve this issue is short sighted. Marginalized gunmen with grievances need to be identified. But not all will be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2056 March 8, 2018 "But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Barack Obama April 6, 2008 San Francisco, CAMath tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #2057 March 8, 2018 With increased carry, there will be increased accidents. Maybe more than deaths prevented, maybe not. However, after each accident, I’ll just bet the discussion includes a lot of people assuring either themselves or their friends that there’s no way they’d ever make that mistake. Kind of like swooping. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2058 March 9, 2018 wmw999With increased carry, there will be increased accidents. Maybe more than deaths prevented, maybe not. However, after each accident, I’ll just bet the discussion includes a lot of people assuring either themselves or their friends that there’s no way they’d ever make that mistake. Kind of like swooping. Wendy P. The data around concealed carry increases did not support your supposition."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #2059 March 9, 2018 >The data around concealed carry increases did not support your supposition. =================================== American Journal of Public Health December 2017 Easiness of Legal Access to Concealed Firearm Permits and Homicide Rates in the United States Michael Siegel MD, MPH, Ziming Xuan ScD, SM, MA, Craig S. Ross PhD, MBA, Sandro Galea MD, DrPH, MPH, Bindu Kalesan PhD, MPH, MSc, Eric Fleegler MD, MPH, and Kristin A. Goss PhD, MPP Accepted: August 01, 2017 Published Online: November 08, 2017 Abstract Objectives. To examine the relation of “shall-issue” laws, in which permits must be issued if requisite criteria are met; “may-issue” laws, which give law enforcement officials wide discretion over whether to issue concealed firearm carry permits or not; and homicide rates. Methods. We compared homicide rates in shall-issue and may-issue states and total, firearm, nonfirearm, handgun, and long-gun homicide rates in all 50 states during the 25-year period of 1991 to 2015. We included year and state fixed effects and numerous state-level factors in the analysis. Results. Shall-issue laws were significantly associated with 6.5% higher total homicide rates, 8.6% higher firearm homicide rates, and 10.6% higher handgun homicide rates, but were not significantly associated with long-gun or nonfirearm homicide. Conclusions. Shall-issue laws are associated with significantly higher rates of total, firearm-related, and handgun-related homicide. http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2017.304057 ====================================== Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #2060 March 9, 2018 You and your pesky facts and data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,587 #2061 March 9, 2018 Should have just replied "do too." Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2062 March 9, 2018 Since Bill did not post to accidental shootings, which Wendy referenced, I will not either Quote4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t. True. The 31 states that have “shall issue” laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gun-control-myths-realities And while those quoted in the following article dispute John Lott's conclusion, they still admit reduced crime rates in shall issue states. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/do-concealed-weapon-laws-result-in-less-crime/2012/12/16/e80a5d7e-47c9-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_blog.html?utm_term=.b9052bff2d1f"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2063 March 9, 2018 yoinkYou and your pesky facts and data. Yes Real facts are pesky....."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2064 March 9, 2018 wmw999Should have just replied "do too." Wendy P. you just did and Bill did not address your point......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #2065 March 9, 2018 rushmc***Should have just replied "do too." Wendy P. you just did and Bill did not address your point....... Wendy wasn't speaking of accidental shootings, she was speaking of accidents, as in innocent people getting killed. At least that is how I read it. Secondly, you are disputing a 2017 research paper with a summary put together in 2000. Do you think about anything before you post it? Review it a bit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #2066 March 9, 2018 rushmc And while those quoted in the following article dispute John Lott's conclusion........ Ah, John Lott, or is it "Mary Rosh", the guy caught falsifying his data. Funny you should reference him again. He's about as credible as Breitbart.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #2067 March 9, 2018 >Since Bill did not post to accidental shooting . . . =============== Americans Who Carry Concealed Weapons Keep Accidentally Shooting Themselves in Public Bathrooms JOHN METCALFE SEP 17, 2014 Citylab This year's list of incidents includes an Italian restaurant, a prosecutor's office, a Target, a Burger King ... Last year, CityLab took a brief look at the disturbingly high number of accidental firearm discharges that take place in public bathrooms across the United States. There were reports of accidental gunfire in bathrooms at a Walmart, a hotel, a grocery store, an Internet cafe, and a Carl's Jr. (The roundup somehow missed this one at an Irish pub in Florida.) In most cases, the self-inflicted victims were pulling up or lowering their pants when their concealed weapon fell out, hit the floor, and fired. . . .Since then there's been no drop in the stream of concealed weapon-carrying Americans accidentally firing their guns in the john. Below, I've posted a chronology of the most-recent PSA-worthy incidents for anybody who doesn't have a Google Alert set up for "accidental discharge + bathroom." Please note that this list is certainly not exhaustive, as I had to cut off my search at a certain point due to the sheer volume of these incidents. ================ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2068 March 10, 2018 kallendAh, John Lott, … Is he the ivy league professor who published his gun "research" in book form, to avoid the peer referee process of academic journals?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #2069 March 10, 2018 This visualization came up in my FB newsfeed today (see attached). It shows clear negative correlation between the number of gun prohibitions at state level and rate of firearm deaths in that state. Source: The Christian Science Monitor Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,112 #2070 March 10, 2018 >It shows clear negative correlation between the number of gun prohibitions at state >level and rate of firearm deaths in that state. Only one thing to do - sell more guns! That way the NRA gets their cut and people remain afraid. Win-win for Republicans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #2071 March 10, 2018 Here's a video that explains it well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxwPcUh97oc"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMK 3 #2072 March 10, 2018 Back to our daily "shoot'em up" 4 Dead http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/veterans-home-shooting-latest-yountville-california-gunman-hostages-four-dead-a8249206.html"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #2073 March 10, 2018 jcd11235***Ah, John Lott, … Is he the ivy league professor who published his gun "research" in book form, to avoid the peer referee process of academic journals? Not exactly. He liked to describe himself that way but he failed to get tenure at U of Chicago, Yale University, the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, and the University of Maryland, College Park (probably for reasons previously described - faking results, setting up fake identities, avoiding peer review). Basically he is a charlatan.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #2074 March 10, 2018 On full semi-automatic??? The Auntie AR-15 nuts are funny to watch because they ain't got a freaking clue what they're talking about. https://patriotpost.us/articles/54630-video-cnns-scoop-on-full-semiautomatic-guns In the embedded CNN video proves it"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,275 #2075 March 10, 2018 There actually are no "anti AR-15 nuts". There are a bunch of people who want to limit access to rifles with large magazines and close quarter fighting designs. Just because they don't know the details of the different models does not make them nuts. Gun nuts on the other hand, now those are for real.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
