Woman fails crucial test for FDNY is still passed.

[promise5 17]

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/

I disagree and I wouldn't work with her. She's going to be a liability.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[ryoder 1,590]

promise5

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/

I disagree and I wouldn't work with her. She's going to be a liability.

FIFY

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Driver1 0]

promise5

http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/

I disagree and I wouldn't work with her. She's going to be a liability.

Agreed. I'm no firefighter, but if she was on my team and endangered the lives of her fellow firefighters because she couldn't pull her weight like everybody else, there are not going to be some happy campers.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[BIGUN 1,486]

Quote

I disagree and I wouldn't work with her. She's going to be a liability.

Good.

Now you know how those of us in the military felt when the standards were being lowered to allow for a higher enlistment or retention of women.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[promise5 17]

If she had any integrity she would quit.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Have you done the same test she didn't pass?

[BIGUN 1,486]

Good.

You're soon to realize how the men and women of the military who did not want the standard lowered and were called "Sexist."

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[promise5 17]

If I haven't done the same exact test, I've done something close to it.

My understanding is it's basically an interior obstacle (for lack of a better word)course with a pack.

The one I did for interior attack I failed a couple times before I passed. I wasn't allowed to go inside until I passed that part of the program and I'm still under someone and being mentored myself.

Sorry my ego isn't so big I want to cost someone their life. We're not talking about a walk through the park.

Even those that have never done any part of this job or wanted to have the right to say if your can't pass the standard that is set then step aside.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

If I haven't done the same exact test, I've done something close to it.

My understanding is it's basically an interior obstacle (for lack of a better word)course with a pack.

And reduced oxygen supply.

Could be that you wouldn't be able to pass the test for NYFD either then. If you can pass the test for your FD but not for the NYFD, would you not work with yourself for being a liability?

For the record, I believe that if there is a test, everyubody should be able to pass the test. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these tests are based more on excluding groups, than properly ensuring it measures ability to do the job.

Many fire departments do seem to look like one the last bastions of white male dominated workplaces.

[kallend 2,148]

BIGUN

Good.

You're soon to realize how the men and women of the military who did not want the standard lowered and were called "Sexist."

If the ONLY criterion you consider is gender, then it is sexist.

If you have arbitrary standards "because that's the way we've always done it", then it is open to abuse.

Define the standards the job requires, then test to those standards.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[promise5 17]

If I can't pass a test needed for my job then I'm a liability and I shouldn't be working in that career field.
I don't play with people's lives.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

Define the standards the job requires, then test to those standards.

Your full post implies an automatic assumption that the test is biased unfairly

did you read the article - they lay out the requirements for the test, what is your expert opinion?



from the article by other females about the test

Quote

two other female probies in the graduating class passed the FST with flying colors.

“They’re kicking butt. They’re doing better than 50 percent of the class,” the insider said. “When they get assigned to a firehouse, they’ll be welcomed with open arms because they’ve done what everyone else has gone through.”

Other female firefighters aren’t pleased about Wax’s treatment, either.

“A lot of the girls in the field are pissed because they feel like they’re getting lumped into the same category of a female getting special treatment and not meeting the same standards as the males,” the insider added. “It devalues what the women in the field have accomplished.”

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,148]

rehmwa

***Define the standards the job requires, then test to those standards.

Your full post implies an automatic ass-umption



Don't ass-ume anything. If you're not sure, ask.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BIGUN 1,486]

kallend

***Good.

You're soon to realize how the men and women of the military who did not want the standard lowered and were called "Sexist."

If the ONLY criterion you consider is gender, then it is sexist.

If you have arbitrary standards "because that's the way we've always done it", then it is open to abuse.

Define the standards the job requires, then test to those standards.

The mission standard of these critical and vital units must not be lowered to meet the needs of females. If women are able to meet the physical standards required of the position, then good for them. They should then be granted every opportunity that a man is offered. But do not expect to have that opportunity without being able to toe-the-line with men. You’re going to have to on the battlefield anyway. The mission isn’t any less demanding because women are suddenly trying to accomplish it.

And the majority of women in the military don’t expect or want different standards based solely upon their gender. They want to succeed based upon their own actions and merits, not be handed a consolation prize because they were granted special treatment. Military women don’t need to appease certain parts of society that demand this change without ever having served in the military. Women who have been in the military for some time understand the resentment that comes along with ‘equal but different’ standards in a world that demands equality.

Unfortunately, we are seeing military leadership more concerned with fulfilling quotas than meeting mission priorities. Many are more focused on setting women up for successful entries into these positions than actually holding them accountable to the standard. Often men train for months to get physically prepared for certain job positions within the military. If women know they have a weak spot physically, shouldn’t they be required to do the same instead of lowering a standard? This is a double standard in a society that preaches equality and a military that demands personal responsibility. Having said that; change is in the air...

Here's the disparity of the current Military Physical Fitness test:

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/army-basic-training-pft

TRADOC Revises Army Physical Fitness Test - What it is going to be

"Since 1980, the U.S. Army has assessed physical aptitude through the Army Physical Fitness Test, or APFT. Commonly known as the "PT Test," Soldiers are required to complete three events: two-minutes of push-ups, two-minutes of sit-ups, and a two-mile run.

"Today's PT test does not adequately measure components of strength, endurance, or mobility. The events have a low correlation to the performance of warrior tasks and battle drills and are not strong predictors of successful physical performance on the battlefield or in full spectrum operations," said Lt. Gen. Mark P. Hertling, TRADOC's deputy commanding general for Initial Military Training, who holds a master's degree in exercise physiology.

As TRADOC's lead for the test review, Hertling collaborated with a 16-member team headed by Frank Palkoska, director of the U.S. Army Physical Fitness School, resulting in a recommendation to the Army for not just one, but two revised PT tests.

"The goal is to align the training and the tests with tasks that Soldiers have to perform on the battlefield so that the commander has a better tool to measure preparedness and can guide training for the unit," said Palkoska."

See embedded new APFT

Source: http://www.military.com/military-fitness/army-fitness-requirements/tradoc-revises-army-physical-fitness-test

ETA: Make URL Clicky

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Also from the article:

Quote

United Women Firefighters, an organization of FDNY women, objects to the FST test, contending it unfairly bars females.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

promise5

If I can't pass a test needed for my job then I'm a liability and I shouldn't be working in that career field.
I don't play with people's lives.

Your logic is faulty. That logic only applies if the test is an accurate reflection of the job requirement.

If you can't pass the NYFD test, are you a liability for the current FD you work for?

[Driver1 0]

SkyDekker

***If I can't pass a test needed for my job then I'm a liability and I shouldn't be working in that career field.
I don't play with people's lives.

Your logic is faulty. That logic only applies if the test is an accurate reflection of the job requirement.

If you can't pass the NYFD test, are you a liability for the current FD you work for?

She says she passed the test HER FD has for all probies in her town. I have no idea if there are any differences, but being that her area and NYC are two totally different landscapes and have their own specialized structures and dangers, so I'm assuming the FDNY has their own standards to deal with such. Correct me if I'm wrong.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[promise5 17]

No actually. I have been tested and I've passed what was required of me to work for my department. IF I would apply at the FDNY, I would then be required to meet and pass their qualifications and tests. If I didn't then I shouldn't be working for them. Simple.

There's a basic standard. I've met and passed that standard.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

They must climb six flights of stairs, stretch hose lines, raise ladders, perform tasks that simulate breaking doors and pulling down ceilings, and drag dummies through tunnels with no visibility.

I would have hoped they'd be willing to drag anybody, not just those with disabilities.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

promise5

No actually. I have been tested and I've passed what was required of me to work for my department. IF I would apply at the FDNY, I would then be required to meet and pass their qualifications and tests. If I didn't then I shouldn't be working for them. Simple.

There's a basic standard. I've met and passed that standard.

You've passed it for your fire department yes. You might still have to consider yourself a liability for the NYPD though.

[promise5 17]

I am a liability if I can't pass the standard set, no matter where I would work.

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

promise5

I am a liability if I can't pass the standard set, no matter where I would work.

I disagree. I would agree if the test is a true representation of the job requirement.

[Andy9o8 2]

BIGUN

Quote

I disagree and I wouldn't work with her. She's going to be a liability.

Good. Now you know how those of us in the military felt when the standards were being lowered to allow for a higher enlistment or retention of women.

Right on, bro! That's what we have the Navy for!

[promise5 17]

And you know that it's not??

No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible.
Believe me I tried.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

promise5

And you know that it's not??

I don't, nor do you know if it is. Your post above made it clear you aren't entirely sure what the NYPD test is comprised of.

What we do know is that an association of female NYFD members has some objections.