Water and the southwest

[kallend 2,114]

The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

There are several solutions. All political. Which means nothing will be done.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,114]

lawrocket

***
The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

There are several solutions. All political. Which means nothing will be done.

And the population will continue to grow beyond the level the resources can support until something gives?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Driver1 0]

kallend

******
The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

There are several solutions. All political. Which means nothing will be done.

And the population will continue to grow beyond the level the resources can support until something gives?

That's when it's time to move to greener pastures.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[kallend 2,114]

Driver1

*********
The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

There are several solutions. All political. Which means nothing will be done.

And the population will continue to grow beyond the level the resources can support until something gives?

That's when it's time to move to greener pastures.

In the past two weeks I've flown from the midwestern US to both SoCal and to the UK. The difference when looking out the plane window is striking. The UK and Ireland are unbelievably green when viewed from above, while the southwest looks like what it is... mile after mile of desert dirt.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Elisha 1]

kallend

The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

WHY do people (not just picking on you - you just happened to say it) keep saying that the region is unable to support the population level? Take for example Germany, which has an area the size of Montana, but with double the population of California. Yes, they may get more precipitation, but I highly doubt they consume even close to the same water as CA. I'm sure similar comparisons can be made for other European countries. As has been said several times in SC, it's Ag that's the biggest issue. 80% is consumed by Ag. It is the current Ag use that is unsupportable and should be shifted to other parts of the country.

[wmw999 2,558]

It's been unsustainable for a long time; consider Phoenix and Las Vegas, and the number of golf courses there, not to mention people with lawns.

Desalination will help coastal areas, but transportation of water, whether desalinated or not, will make it prohibitive for inland.

Wichita Falls, TX is recycling its water more directly than most cities; it's the next step, but too many people will object to the gross-out factor until it's desperate, rather than when it's just advisable.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

wmw999

It's been unsustainable for a long time; consider Phoenix and Las Vegas, and the number of golf courses there, not to mention people with lawns.

Desalination will help coastal areas, but transportation of water, whether desalinated or not, will make it prohibitive for inland.

Wichita Falls, TX is recycling its water more directly than most cities; it's the next step, but too many people will object to the gross-out factor until it's desperate, rather than when it's just advisable.

Wendy P.

Here is one way to send water from Oregon south to California.....

[billvon 3,087]

>And the population will continue to grow beyond the level the resources can
>support until something gives?

Or until we come up with something else. Some options:

1) Two water lines to each house. One with potable water, the other with either salt water or reclaimed water. The reclaimed water is used for irrigation; potable water for everything else. (Or salt water is used for showering, washing, flushing and fountains; potable water for final rinse, drinking and irrigation.)

2) Distribute only salt water. Local users each have an evaporation desalinator to provide the potable water needed.

3) Greywater requirements for every new home built. All irrigation water must come from greywater.

4) (by far the simplest) charge for water. Have thirty gallons per person per month provided free (for drinking and washing) and then charge what it costs beyond that.

[ryoder 1,590]

Amazon

Here is one way to send water from Oregon south to California.....

Don't Anheuser-Busch InBev, and SABMiller, already have patents on this?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Amazon 7]

ryoder

***
Here is one way to send water from Oregon south to California.....

Don't Anheuser-Busch InBev, and SABMiller, already have patents on this?


It sure tastes like it... good reason to only drink micro brews from small breweries who are willing to show how they make their product

[airdvr 210]

Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rehmwa 2]

airdvr

Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

You're silly - I'm sure he meant that they only charge certain people for all the water for everybody. It would be unfair to charge the actual people that use the water. Why would he hate the poor and women and disabled...?

Solution - Charge for it, but the government pays for it. It's "free" water. "universal hydration program".

It'll work like this - if water is getting scarce, then we charge for it. If it stays scarce, then the price goes up.

Now, if we learned anything from education policy it's this.... - If the price goes up too much, we then subsidize it strongly - thus by throwing more money at it, that's guaranteed to drive down the price.

it's so simple

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,114]

airdvr

Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Apparently in your haste to badmouth liberals, you missed this part: "Have thirty gallons per person per month provided free (for drinking and washing)"

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

Hi Jeanne,

Quote

water from Oregon south to California

Here is one thought: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-shatner-boldly-goes-after-water-20150423-story.html

Back in the late 60's a former supervisor of mine worked for the BLM in their Denver office. At that time they had actual drawings of a pipe going from the mouth of the Columbia River to California.

Also back in the late 60's, the late Sen. Mark Hatfield ( R-Or ) gave a speech about water being the next major problem in the west. He was nearly boo'ed out of the room.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Psst, wanna buy a golf course in Arizona?

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

***Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Apparently in your haste to badmouth liberals, you missed this part: "Have thirty gallons per person per month provided free (for drinking and washing)"

Why do you hate minorities and women? Don't they (and the disabled) deserve 32 gallons/month 'free'?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,114]

rehmwa

******Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Apparently in your haste to badmouth liberals, you missed this part: "Have thirty gallons per person per month provided free (for drinking and washing)"

Why do you hate minorities and women? Don't they (and the disabled) deserve 32 gallons/month 'free'?

Ask billvon - it was his suggestion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

lawrocket

***
The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad. I'm wondering if there is a long-term technical solution, or is the entire region simply unable to support the population at its current level.

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-lake-mead-low-20150429-story.html

There are several solutions. All political. Which means nothing will be done.I'm genuinely curious about your ideas for solutions. My understanding is that the situation in California is complicated by the fact that about 80% of the water use is for agriculture, and many farmers have legal water rights going back to the 19th or early 20th centuries and so are immune from restrictions. That has spawned an arms race of well drilling, with the result that the aquifer is now also being depleted at an unsustainable rate.

Re: "The water situation in the southwest is looking pretty bad." It's not just in the Southwest. Georgia, Alabama, and Florida have been locked in a legal war over water from the Chattahochee River for decades. Much of Atlanta's growth has been fueled by illegal water withdrawals from Lake Lanier, the main reservoir on the Chatahoochee. Communities downstream are mostly getting "recharge water", water from the sewage treatment plants in Atlanta, and too little is reaching the Gulf in Florida to support ecosystems needed for fish and shrimp spawning.

Speaking of "political solutions", some Georgia legislators came up with a doozy. They claim the survey done in the early 1800s to determine the Georgia/Tennessee boundary is off by one mile. They actually passed a state resolution to move the border one mile north. The point is, that would bring one shore of the Tennessee River into Georgia, and they planned to build a giant pipeline to such water from the Tennessee River to bring it to Atlanta. Never mind that the border issue was settled over 100 years ago by the US Supreme Court.

The problem is, the only realistic solution is to limit growth to the available water, not the water in wet years but the water in the years of drought that frequently occur. However growth = tax revenues, and no politician is going to voluntarily curtail their own power and revenue stream.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[justme12001 0]

It actually isn't that far fetched of an idea! Maybe not for Oregon to Cali, but water is moved like this a lot, most people just don't realize it.

I used to work for this company http://www.american-usa.com/products/spiral-welded-steel-pipe/spiral-welded-steel-pipe/spiral-welded-steel-pipe.
And as an industrial contractor, still do some work for them. I have some welders on site now as a matter of fact.

Spiral weld is currently building a pipe line to transport water over a large portion of TX. Not sure of the specifics, but was told it is to be a couple hundred miles.

[RMK 3]

Aside from the political/agricultural element; It would be useful to see more advancement in desalination technology (batteries and desalination are the two technologies that have left everyone disappointed).

I noted this: http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/534996/megascale-desalination/

However, this is still reverse osmosis, not exactly new tech nor easily scaled up for a population like California’s

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[billvon 3,087]

>Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

You know those liberals - always wanting to turn everything into a capitalist solution, thinking the free market has this magical power to apportion scarce resources. Next thing you know those damn stinking liberals will be arguing to privatize social security, reduce taxes and cut social spending, while relying on the private sector to care for the poor.

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

You know those liberals - always wanting to turn everything into a capitalist solution, thinking the free market has this magical power to apportion scarce resources. Next thing you know those damn stinking liberals will be arguing to privatize social security, reduce taxes and cut social spending, while relying on the private sector to care for the poor.

that would require reading a few economics textbooks

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 3,087]

>Why do you hate minorities and women? Don't they (and the disabled) deserve 32
>gallons/month 'free'?

No, but wetbacks do (for obvious reasons.)

[Andy9o8 2]

airdvr

Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Wait - there are lots of municipalities all over the country that charge users for water (or water/sewer) as a utility on an amount-used basis, just like electricity or gas. Am I missing something that you guys understand?

[airdvr 210]

Andy9o8

***Typical liberal solution. "We should just charge for it."

Of course when the municipality actually tries to collect on the water bill like they did in Detroit you'll scream that water is a basic human right.

Wait - there are lots of municipalities all over the country that charge users for water (or water/sewer) as a utility on an amount-used basis, just like electricity or gas. Am I missing something that you guys understand?

From Bill's post...
4) (by far the simplest) charge for water. Have thirty gallons per person per month provided free (for drinking and washing) and then charge what it costs beyond that.

Quit being obtuse.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne