rehmwa 2 #51 April 28, 2015 DanGAndy, that was the exact point of the analogy. Rehmwa keeps saying the doctor shouldn't be involved in the decision. I do not say that even one bit - I say that the decision is the woman's decision alone. She has the duty to involve the doctor as part of HER choice. Or anyone else she chooses to involve is also her choice. I'm am only taking exception to the trite saying because it implies she shouldn't involve anyone BUT the doctor, which is also a restriction. And also because it opens up avenues for anti- groups to try and influence doctors as in indirect way of intervening with a woman's choice. the doctor doesn't make the choice - he only advises - like anyone else the woman wants to choose to involve ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #52 April 28, 2015 billvon>Well, you can't force an abortion clinic doctor to perform an abortion he thinks >is dangerous to the patient, either. Not a good analogy. Exactly. Which is why it's up to the woman and her doctor. The day it is so safe that it can come in an over-the-counter kit then the doctor will no longer need to be involved in the decision. There are many drugs that used to require a prescription that are now over-the counter, without any change whatever in their primary effects or side effects. My wife (a physician) tells me that, excepting scheduled drugs under the CSA, it's mostly about money, not safety.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,589 #53 April 28, 2015 Quote There have only been a handful of men and women with the ability to change the world. Perhaps we've fucked ourselves by allowing that next man or woman to be aborted because of our selfishness. Included among those are Pol Pot, Ivan the Terrible, Josef Stalin, Heinrich Himmler, and the unnamed one who would take this thread to Godwin-land They all helped change the world. Just not for the better. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #55 April 28, 2015 lmao...it took me a minute.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #56 April 28, 2015 >Voldemort Would you STOP saying that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #57 April 30, 2015 Andy9o8 *** Quote Hey - the decision is between the woman "and her doctor" Like any medical procedure, the doctor does have an obligation to explain the procedure and possible side-effects etc. I agree that the decision in the end should be solely made by the woman. I don't agree that a woman should just be able to walk into a clinic and demand an abortion without any questions asked. That would simply be bad health care. I strongly disagree, in this instance. The proponents of laws like this do so not principally (or for many, not at all) out of concern for the health of young women as medical patients. It's a complete strawman. Their agenda is, quite, simply, to make "Roe-legal" abortion so user-unfriendly (or even user-hostile) that the scared, family- and church-oppressed pregnant girl will be so intimidated by the process that she will fail to obtain the abortion she desires. This is especially so for girls living with their families, and needing 100% confidentiality, who often have just the "one chance" to sneak away and have their abortion btw...I think I got too emotionally involved with my last rant that I decided not to mention your post is just as much a strawman... Like all those poor oppressed christian girls who often have just the "one chance" to sneak away and get knocked-up...c'mon man...Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #58 April 30, 2015 QuoteAgain...it's just fucking sad. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. We should celebrate life, not destroy it. If our daughters sin, we should forgive them and not forsake them...we should support them rather then feeding them to the wolves. humans do not celebrate life, and we destroy life every day. stop pretending that we care, when we invade countries and bomb the shit out of anyone that gets in our way. It is a joke that somehow humans care about life any more than a polar bear cares about the seal it catches. stop kidding yourself. the abortion issue gets used far too many times (as far as I am concerned) as some vehicle for 'how much we care about life'. those same pro-lifers support our military and send their kids to war to kill other people for far less reasons that the need for an abortion. that might be 'sad', yes, but the fact is we do not care that much about life. not really. Of course everyone likes to think that they do, but the only lives you really care about are those closest to you. and no piece of legislation is going to fix that either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #59 April 30, 2015 Quotethe only lives you really care about are those closest to you. Except the ones inside you... I find your perspective very depressing...it's reality. It's why I try by best to separate myself from that mentality and those who share it. It doesn't have to be that way, and we all know it...Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 348 #60 April 30, 2015 I do not find living in reality as depressing. better than living in fantasy. nothing wrong with ideologies I guess, but at some point you have to face reality and best to base policies and laws on that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #61 May 3, 2015 Coreeece There have only been a handful of men and women with the ability to change the world. Perhaps we've fucked ourselves by allowing that next man or woman to be aborted because of our selfishness. 40 million+ and counting. Add non procreation sex, masturbation or nocturnal emissions, and menstruation to the possible loss of the next "chosen one." Dwarfs that number... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
