Patriotism and Fox News

[normiss 897]

Given the SC decision the following year, I'd have a hard time believing this still stands.
Easily dealt with in court to say the least.
It IS battery after all.

[Coreeece 2]

Amazon

******

The protesters, on the other hand, did nothing illegal. They shouldn't be subjected to legal action. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be subjected to counter-protest or attempts to educate them.

They seem to be better educated about the Constitution than the lady who stole their flag.

It appears that the metric being used here in SC is... if it gives them a stiffy...... its all good

Well, that's the metric system...

The US standard measures the difference between covering your ass with the american flag and wiping your ass with the american flag...

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 897]

I believe both are protected.


Depending on exactly how you do each.

[wmw999 2,589]

Quote

You can disagree with pro-lifers all day long, but you don’t get to steal stuff from them and then attack them when they try to get it back. Surprisingly, this is true even at UCSB.

Right outcome.
I'm as pro-choice as they come (with the obvious limitations on gestational maturity etc). But she was wrong, and got penalized by the judicial system.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,596]

RonD1120

And on the other side, "Michelle Manhart has caused controversy before by posting in Playboy magazine. But in this case, she is absolutely right to defend the American flag at all costs. The police should be helping her protect the flag, instead of arresting her."

Except that they shouldn't, unless you think that the police should be able to make up laws as they go along.

She was stealing and resisting arrest. The police did restrain her and later release her without charge. They did not body slam her, punch her, kick her, put her in a chokehold, taze her or shoot her ("accidentally" or intentionally). I don't think she has any cause to complain about her treatment.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 4]

markharju

Try doing that to an Albanian flag in Kosovo and you won't walk away, I guarantee it.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but our goal is rise above quasi-anarchy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

Exactly my point, I believe the flag should be respected for what it stands for and the blood shed for it.

Anyone who sheds blood for a flag is a fucking moron.

Quote

Patriotic Americans do not want to see the flag disrepected in any form.

Some don't. Others don't care. Devotion to a particular pattern on a piece of cloth may sometimes be associated with patriotism, but it's not a part of patriotism.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

I have participated in 170 Patriot Guard Rider missions for veterans. In every instance where we strongly suspected that the WBC might show up we were reminded that we are a non-confrontational organization. The code is explicitly spelled out on the website. All PGR members know it and have accepted it.

So when you're confronting the WBC, a bunch of despicable individuals who are intentionally trying to cause as much emotional distress as possible to specific individuals who are already grieving the loss of their loved ones you are able to control yourself.

But if you see a group of people walking over a flag, that is a step too far and you wouldn't be able to stop yourself resorting to violence?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

there was a similar case to this one. On a campus in CA
the prof and a couple of her thug students took pro-posters from protestors
they also roughed up the students while in the act of thef

Pro-what?

And source?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

quade

***Try doing that to an Albanian flag in Kosovo and you won't walk away, I guarantee it.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but our goal is rise above quasi-anarchy.

American Exceptionalism = American Albanianism?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[winsor 236]

jakee

******Try doing that to an Albanian flag in Kosovo and you won't walk away, I guarantee it.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but our goal is rise above quasi-anarchy.

American Exceptionalism = American Albanianism?

Evner Hoxa lives!

[RonD1120 62]

jakee

Quote

Exactly my point, I believe the flag should be respected for what it stands for and the blood shed for it.

Anyone who sheds blood for a flag is a fucking moron.

Quote

Patriotic Americans do not want to see the flag disrepected in any form.

Some don't. Others don't care. Devotion to a particular pattern on a piece of cloth may sometimes be associated with patriotism, but it's not a part of patriotism.

Your post clearly indicates that you have no clue as to how Americans think or why we behave as we do. You are on the outside looking in and simply do not understand what you observe.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

jakee

Quote

I have participated in 170 Patriot Guard Rider missions for veterans. In every instance where we strongly suspected that the WBC might show up we were reminded that we are a non-confrontational organization. The code is explicitly spelled out on the website. All PGR members know it and have accepted it.

So when you're confronting the WBC, a bunch of despicable individuals who are intentionally trying to cause as much emotional distress as possible to specific individuals who are already grieving the loss of their loved ones you are able to control yourself.

But if you see a group of people walking over a flag, that is a step too far and you wouldn't be able to stop yourself resorting to violence?

Depends

If I am representing the PGR I would most certainly restrain myself unless the WBC committed an assault.

In the latter situation, well...depends.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,119]

>When we repacked the flag we would hide away because we had to fold it on the
>ground and we did not want any spectators to witness the procedure.

Well, as long as you deceive people about it, that's OK.

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>When we repacked the flag we would hide away because we had to fold it on the
>ground and we did not want any spectators to witness the procedure.

Well, as long as you deceive people about it, that's OK.

Maybe we should get Airtwardo to respond to your statement.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreeece 2]

winsor

*********Try doing that to an Albanian flag in Kosovo and you won't walk away, I guarantee it.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but our goal is rise above quasi-anarchy.

American Exceptionalism = American Albanianism?

Evner Hoxa lives!

Ha, not quite...In God we trust!

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[kallend 2,150]

jakee

***And on the other side, "Michelle Manhart has caused controversy before by posting in Playboy magazine. But in this case, she is absolutely right to defend the American flag at all costs. The police should be helping her protect the flag, instead of arresting her."

Except that they shouldn't, unless you think that the police should be able to make up laws as they go along.

She was stealing and resisting arrest. The police did restrain her and later release her without charge. They did not body slam her, punch her, kick her, put her in a chokehold, taze her or shoot her ("accidentally" or intentionally). I don't think she has any cause to complain about her treatment.

They didn't? Is she white, then? (I haven't watched the video).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

RonD1120

***

Quote

Exactly my point, I believe the flag should be respected for what it stands for and the blood shed for it.

Anyone who sheds blood for a flag is a fucking moron.

Quote

Patriotic Americans do not want to see the flag disrepected in any form.

Some don't. Others don't care. Devotion to a particular pattern on a piece of cloth may sometimes be associated with patriotism, but it's not a part of patriotism.

Your post clearly indicates that you have no clue as to how Americans think or why we behave as we do. You are on the outside looking in and simply do not understand what you observe.

I think he nailed it. Some care (I do). Others don't. A symbol is not something we fight for - the symbol can only represent what we truly fight for.

Tell me I don't understand how Americans think - I was born here, raised here. I served my country and the people of the country in the armed forces and in how I live my life afterward.

I do not serve a symbol - I serve what the symbol represents. I personally respect the symbol and want others to do the same. But if they don't, and it's their property, I won't try to force them under physical threat or legislation to act about it like I do (pretty much the biggest complaint I have about liberalism and extreme religious righties, BTW). I'll have a serious conversation with them, you bet. But crossing the line beyond that is like being forced to buy a particular type of light bulb, or having words outlawed - it's out of hand and excessively controlling -

Pretty much we've torn ourselves and apart and fought pretty damn hard all over the world to get away from government that tries to tell us how to think. example being forcing a religious-like attitude on people about personal property - like a flag.

IMHO - Forcing someone to act a certain way about their own personal property is pretty much another form of intrusive PC thuggery.


the girl committed theft and assault - just because she did it to assholes doesn't make it right.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

billvon

>When we repacked the flag we would hide away because we had to fold it on the
>ground and we did not want any spectators to witness the procedure.

Well, as long as you deceive people about it, that's OK.

snarky, even for you

respecting the feelings of others that might have a different opinion than you (such as packing up a flag in a private setting) is not a negative thing. Ron has plenty of stuff here that he's (probably as Devil's Advocate) missing the point on. This isn't one of them



Heck, if the protesters had the same courtesy and did it on their own property and invited likeminded people to participate - that certainly would have been courteous. But free speech isn't dialogue and debate now, is it? It's about being rude to others for the sake of venting, rather than convincing others for the sake of expanding a viewpoint.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,589]

Thanks; you beat me to it, with far more qualification as an American, and more eloquently. I agree.

I might not even confront people (I can be chicken), but I'd think they were dipshits most of the time. And I'd probably convey that feeling to others.

But when my son was harassed by a mall cop for wearing a hat with an upside down flag on it, I was pissed. He knew exactly what the upside down flag meant, and agreed with the sentiment (of distress). It was also the emblem of a band he liked (he was fifteen, after all ).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

But when my son was harassed by a mall cop for wearing a hat with an upside down flag on it, I was pissed.

It's a rude thing to do, what your son did, and just designed to elicit exactly that response. Once you were done with the cop (as any good mother would)..... Were you just as pissed at your son or use the situation to have that discussion with him?

I'd be ok with the mall cop (or anyone else, including a 'real' cop) if his response was strictly verbally stating his opinion on the hat and chastizing your son for his disrespect. But If that mall rep abused his authority, or got physical with your son, then I'm your side. Free speech needs to ready for speech right back at ya. that line is pretty easy to draw.

I hope that's ok with you - it's an honest opinion.

edit: and then I'd tell him to get off my lawn

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

rehmwa

***But when my son was harassed by a mall cop for wearing a hat with an upside down flag on it, I was pissed.

It's a rude thing to do, what your son did, and just designed to elicit exactly that response. Once you were done with the cop (as any good mother would)..... Were you just as pissed at your son or use the situation to have that discussion with him?

I'd be ok with the mall cop (or anyone else, including a 'real' cop) if his response was strictly verbally stating his opinion on the hat and chastizing your son for his disrespect.

So if I had a flag on my helmet and I was backflying, you'd think it rude and disrespectful?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Stumpy 284]

rehmwa

I'd be ok with the mall cop (or anyone else, including a 'real' cop) if his response was strictly verbally stating his opinion on the hat and chastizing your son for his disrespect.

If someone feels they have the right to chastize my son for a clothing choice I'm going to tell them where to go whether they are a mall cop or not. The mall cop should be off doing something useful.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[wmw999 2,589]

He detained my son for about a half hour. No cause other than the hat. Gave him shit about it.

My brother had the "it's the flag" reaction. I had the "what a dumbass, both of you" reaction.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

wmw999

He detained my son for about a half hour. No cause other than the hat. Gave him shit about it.

My brother had the "it's the flag" reaction. I had the "what a dumbass, both of you" reaction.

Wendy P.

I'm on your team for reactions. But, IMO, the cop crossed the line.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants