The Cost of Gun Violence

[RMK 3]

What is the solution? I don't have it either.

However, I am certain that solution is not to do nothing.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Wow... Not sure what to say on that. Other than, once again, you you're showing yourself to be incredibly niave, and oblivious to the lessons history teaches us.

Their reasons are as important today as they were then. You can live on your knees if you like, but your right to do so shouldn't affect those of us who would prefer to stand.

I have lived the last 17 years or so in Canada. We are not oppressed, we are free and we seem to live in less fear than our southern neighbours.

Iraq had an armed populace...well, I hope you know what happened there.

Recent history doesn't support the position. History around the founding fathers' time did. Which is exactly what I said.

Quote

Again, let me correct you. There IS a way to "change" it.

It was poorly worded. I fully understand that there is a way to change the constitution. In practical turns however there are two issues that made me say there is no way of changing (the path your founding fathers chose):

1. It is extremely likely one party will even have enough "political capital" to effect a repeal of the 2nd amendment.

2. There are so many guns in circulation, it wouldn't make a difference for a long, long time.

[Glitch 0]

I'm not at all insecure, so no worries there.

Quote

No one is necessarily saying your typical “Earl & Billy Bob” can’t have a gun to go squirrel huntin [sic].

I think we'll disagree on this note too.... It seems like every other person on the left side of the spectrum from the Brady bunch to Bloomberg to Coumo to the assoc of peds has made it their life's work to disarm America.

Maybe lets start by having the whole populace 'packing'... It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Granted, the asshats would likely kill themselves off rather quickly and there would undoubtedly be some innocent old ladies or kids taken out in the process, but when the dust settled there would be a lot less crime overall, the chances of another Sandy Hook or Columbine would be drastically reduced, and society in general would be a lot more polite. Does it bother you to see someone packing while your walking down the street or getting gas? Why?

What's wrong with leaving said gun on the kitchen table? I grew up in a house with guns behind every door and in more drawers than I could count at the time. The difference is education, discipline, and no mystery as to what the gun was (a tool) and what it could do (kill).

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[Glitch 0]

I live south of Canada, and I can assure you that I don't live in fear.

Yes, Iraq had/has an armed populace and I'm well aware of what has happened there. And being armed, they had a chance to defend themselves and the opportunity to stand up against tyrannical forces. Those populations killed under Stalin (20M), Hitler (13M), China (20M), etc. didn't have the means to stand up, because their gov't banned and confiscated firearms.

I'll concede the final point and actually agree with you. There's no realistic way to put the genie back in the bottle, or effectively repeal the 2nd without a likely civil war in the process.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

I know you do not understand the reason the founders placed the 2nd Amendment as they did

They had a decent reason in those days, with the passage of time it is clear they are wrong.

Regardless, there is no way of changing it now. So you get the "local" equivalent of a "global" (cold) war. An arms race on multiple fronts, which eventually will implode.

Nope
You have not the federalist papers


Have you?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

RMK

***
BTW
What is crazypeople. com?

I use it as a generalist term inclusive of Breitbart, Blaze and Fox News (your holy trinity of new clippings).

rushmc

I know you do not understand the politic behind this debate

I lived in the US for 20yrs; I grew up there. I’ve owned many guns; I kept a .45 semi-auto loaded with hollow points and “one in the pipe” in my flat. However, I was a younger man then with a limited view of the world.

Now having more life experience and having lived in other cities (Europe and Asia), I look back with a better informed viewpoint.

Oh ya
I know your type
a liberal
You know you know more than any who disagrees

with you

Good day sir

BTW
I do not believe you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,589]

I've both owned guns and not owned guns. Repeatedly. I've never felt it made a difference in my safety.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

I've both owned guns and not owned guns. Repeatedly. I've never felt it made a difference in my safety.

Wendy P.

That is fine Wendy
Your choice

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RMK 3]

rushmc

Oh ya
I know your type
a liberal
You know you know more than any who disagrees

Why do you always go to the liberal/conservative distinction? The need to have to bring something down to a binary choice is a mental mechanism for the less intelligent.

Better to speak in terms of open-minded or closed-minded. The open-minded may still have very strong precepts, but are open to diverse ideas. Whereas the close-minded are dogmatic in their thought process and “know what they know & nobody is going to tell them any different.”

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[turtlespeed 226]

rushmc

***A comparison to automotive deaths is meaningless; everyone in the US needs to get for A to B. However, a comparison to alcohol-related deaths, I would agree, would have some merit; not everyone has to drink.

I looked at the nominal numbers for US/UK on gun deaths and see the following:

For the last year which I could quickly find comparisons (2012) there were 51 gun deaths in the UK, there were over 30,000 in the US (83 a day). The nominal number was 30,295 (the number rounding alone is higher than if you scale up the UK population to that of the US (we’d still only have a little more 250 gun deaths).

Gun violence is meaningless as well
Guns do not cause violence
Nor do bats
or knives
or whips
or cars
or any other object you list

Bats absolutely cause violence. They swoop down and crush inects, arachnids, and fruit.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,151]

Anvilbrother

How many guns do you have in the uk vs how many guns do you have in the us?

EXACTLY!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[champu 1]

RMK

I loved the John Oliver “Last Week Tonight” skit on the 2nd Amendment

...NRA people throwing a tantrum like a 2yr old saying “it can’t be changed; it’s a constitutional amendment”. John Oliver says: “Yes you can. It’s actually right there in the name; the word AMENDMENT”

I think you're thinking of Jim Jefferies although it's also possible John Oliver did the same bit at some point.

RMK

What is the solution? I don't have it either.

However, I am certain that solution is not to do nothing.

As an engineer I'll start by saying this is a terrible way to approach any problem or perceived problem. The, "I don't have an idea to make a situation or thing better, but I don't care, I know we have to change it anyway." is not defensible. Doing nothing is always in the trade space. In fact, it's the gold standard to which all proposed actions must be compared.

That said, I've posted my thoughts about some things that might help, even if they wouldn't be perfect. I think holes in the background check process, basic safety education, and secure storage are things that can be improved, but we shouldn't ignore/shrug-off gun owners concerns about what most politicians actually propose...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4462390#4462390
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4696191#4696191
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4527208#4527208
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4695095#4695095

I've also posted a more general opinion of types of firearms laws...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4482149;search_string=check;#4482149

...and a template to evaluate some proposed measures/factors when an incident happens...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4446510#4446510