Islam...the religion of peace?

[turtlespeed 226]

Suslique

And who gave us the moral right to decide by the look of women whether they are hypocrites or not???

The women that subscribe to religion as a defining factor of how to dress.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Suslique 0]

turtlespeed

***And who gave us the moral right to decide by the look of women whether they are hypocrites or not???

The women that subscribe to religion as a defining factor of how to dress.

Nope that is their personal choice that should be respected. They are not doing it because of you or me they are doing it because of their faith.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[normiss 897]

From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.
I'm thankful we have no restrictions on our freedoms like that in the US.
I have to respect your commitment to a religion like that.
I personally have trouble understanding it.

[turtlespeed 226]

normiss

From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.
I'm thankful we have no restrictions on our freedoms like that in the US.
I have to respect your commitment to a religion like that.
I personally have trouble understanding it.

You said it much better than I tried to.
Thanks.

But I wasn't mocking them, no matter what she thinks.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,116]

>From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones
>making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.

Exactly the same thing happens here. Walk around topless with your girlfriend and see who gets arrested. Why aren't men and women treated the same in the US? Because we have laws that came from a Christian tradition, and those include different standards for men and women - and those standards came from a church run by men. And they have rules about hiding the "beauty of the female body."

Many American men would say "well, that's different. A woman going topless is just asking for trouble; it's for her own good, for crying out loud." Men from other background say exactly the same thing; there is a difference in scale but no difference at a fundamental level.

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones
>making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.

Exactly the same thing happens here. Walk around topless with your girlfriend and see who gets arrested. Why aren't men and women treated the same in the US? Because we have laws that came from a Christian tradition, and those include different standards for men and women - and those standards came from a church run by men. And they have rules about hiding the "beauty of the female body."

Many American men would say "well, that's different. A woman going topless is just asking for trouble; it's for her own good, for crying out loud." Men from other background say exactly the same thing; there is a difference in scale but no difference at a fundamental level.

I have no issue with women walking around topless, anymore than men walking around without a shirt.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

billvon

>From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones
>making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.

Exactly the same thing happens here. Walk around topless with your girlfriend and see who gets arrested. Why aren't men and women treated the same in the US?

lol...maybe men with breast implants should walk around topless and see what happens.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[normiss 897]

It's always legal at the biker rallies I've been to.
Sometimes not such a good idea IMO.

Given the bathing suits that are in fashion these days, this isn't an issue.

[winsor 236]

Suslique

You are mocking those women.

Correct.

Quote

Those who were genuinely curious were asking questions like adults do in a respectful manner. Sorry but this is just a farce. Not even funny one.

No respect was intended.

When I go through Passenger Screening and one of the screeners is wearing a hijab, she may as well be wearing a swastika as far as I am concerned (as far as Godwin goes, i do not distinguish greatly between Islam and National Socialism - six of one, half a dozen of the other).

There is precisely no humor intended.


BSBD,

Winsor

[winsor 236]

Suslique

Nope that is their personal choice that should be respected. They are not doing it because of you or me they are doing it because of their faith.

Bullshit.

They do not deserve respect.

The whole drive to 'modesty' is that they seek to be sexually unappealing. Mission accomplished.


BSBD,

Winsor

[Suslique 0]

normiss

From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.
I'm thankful we have no restrictions on our freedoms like that in the US.
I have to respect your commitment to a religion like that.
I personally have trouble understanding it.

We don't believe that those are men who are controlling this. Modesty is the choice of many women around the world no matter what their beliefs are.

There is an international hijab day, when women of all backgrounds and religions are wearing hijab as a sign of solidarity with those women who have to fight for their rights to wear hijab. Most find it empowering. Why? Because we stop being a sexualised object for men: in the street, at work, at universities, we are free of beauty cliches and weird beauty standards that are created by MEN.

Why do you think it is inappropriate to walk bare legged/with deep décolleté/transparent/short clothes/or NAKED at work places?

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[winsor 236]

billvon

>From an outside view, it seems the men that are in control of the religion are the ones
>making the silly rules about hiding the beauty of the female body.

Exactly the same thing happens here. Walk around topless with your girlfriend and see who gets arrested. Why aren't men and women treated the same in the US? Because we have laws that came from a Christian tradition, and those include different standards for men and women - and those standards came from a church run by men. And they have rules about hiding the "beauty of the female body."

Many American men would say "well, that's different. A woman going topless is just asking for trouble; it's for her own good, for crying out loud." Men from other background say exactly the same thing; there is a difference in scale but no difference at a fundamental level.

Having lived in areas where it was no big deal to see breasts of every description, I agree that our reaction to the whole thing is fucked up.

Muslims, among others (Haredim, for example), take it to another level.

You wonder why the young men of that culture are okay with blowing themselves to smithereens on a regular basis? It could be a culture that is beyond sexually dysfunctional (they breed like rats, but sensuality has nothing to do with fecundity). Dying begins to look more attractive than a lifetime of more of the same.

At least when you hear "don't touch me there - I don't touch MYSELF there!" in the West, it is generally a joke.


BSBD,

Winsor

[normiss 897]

I don't see women as "sexualized" objects, so their choice in clothing is simply that.
I also see a lot of women working in the fashion and beauty industry, so I think they could equally share some blame on the "weird beauty standards" as you say.
I know how to behave, my parents taught me that with respect as well, so I don't feel seeing someone's knees as inappropriate.

Hiding from reality in life isn't really a solution in my mind.

[Suslique 0]

winsor

***
Nope that is their personal choice that should be respected. They are not doing it because of you or me they are doing it because of their faith.

Bullshit.

They do not deserve respect.

The whole drive to 'modesty' is that they seek to be sexually unappealing. Mission accomplished.


BSBD,

Winsor

yes the whole point is to be sexually unattractive, what is not clear about that?

ok i get it you hate Muslims. I'm just going to ignore your posts from now on because no self respecting person would be so rude to anyone. oh wait I'm not just anyone, I'm nazi muslim paranoid psychopathic maniac. i get it, too bad I'm not going anywhere. g'day

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Suslique 0]

normiss

I don't see women as "sexualized" objects, so their choice in clothing is simply that.
I also see a lot of women working in the fashion and beauty industry, so I think they could equally share some blame on the "weird beauty standards" as you say.
I know how to behave, my parents taught me that with respect as well, so I don't feel seeing someone's knees as inappropriate.

Hiding from reality in life isn't really a solution in my mind.

well women are lucky to be around you then :) not everyone is like that. majority are not like that.

the point is we do it because we believe that Quran is the word of God, and it says that modesty is important so we practice it in our everyday life and find our peace in doing so :)

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[billvon 3,116]

>I have no issue with women walking around topless, anymore than men walking
>around without a shirt.

Nor do I. But, like myself, you do live in a society where men passed silly laws (laws based on religious rules) about hiding the beauty of the female body.

Thus, when a man complains about what a woman is wearing - and that her evil, backward society doesn't allow her to wear what _he_ wants her to wear - fixing his own society first might be a better path than demanding the woman change hers.

[masterblaster72 0]

I find it difficult to understand why a woman would choose to dress in black formless clothing head to toe on a hot summer day, so thanks for your perspective on this.

What are your thoughts on full-face coverings like the Afghan burqa or the niqab? I struggle with this because in my view it dehumanizes a person by hiding her identity. It is also difficult to talk with someone whose facial expression you cannot read.

Regarding the right to dress this way -- do you think a country has the right to legislate against full-face coverings if said country feels it is inconsistent with its culture? France comes to mind in this case.

Cheers

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[winsor 236]

Suslique

******
Nope that is their personal choice that should be respected. They are not doing it because of you or me they are doing it because of their faith.

Bullshit.

They do not deserve respect.

The whole drive to 'modesty' is that they seek to be sexually unappealing. Mission accomplished.


BSBD,

Winsor

yes the whole point is to be sexually unattractive, what is not clear about that?

Quote

Good that you understand.

ok i get it you hate Muslims.

No more than I 'hate" Christians. Their track record through the ages has been simply ghastly, and they still use an execution device as their symbol of choice. Negroes are touchy about nooses, and I have the same warm, fuzzy feeling about crosses.

Quote

I'm just going to ignore your posts from now on because no self respecting person would be so rude to anyone.

Sure they would! They just would be clueless about how offensive they were.

Quote

oh wait I'm not just anyone, I'm nazi muslim paranoid psychopathic maniac.

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was not a Nazi, but he was tight pals with their brass. Actually, Nazis were a much more modern and sophisticated group (with a few minor failings here and there).

I never said anyone was paranoid, nor manic (you may well be - I don't know). The person who claimed to have a direct line with Gibreel was a certifiable psychopath, and revering such an individual does not warrant much in the way of respect.

Not to worry, I have NO expectation of changing your mind about anything. I am absolutely underwhelmed by anyone who thinks that archaic writings of one stripe or another are the Word of God (tm).

Quote

i get it, too bad I'm not going anywhere. g'day

Knock yourself out.


BSBD,

Winsor

[turtlespeed 226]

Suslique

******
Nope that is their personal choice that should be respected. They are not doing it because of you or me they are doing it because of their faith.

Bullshit.

They do not deserve respect.

The whole drive to 'modesty' is that they seek to be sexually unappealing. Mission accomplished.


BSBD,

Winsor

yes the whole point is to be sexually unattractive, what is not clear about that?

ok i get it you hate Muslims. I'm just going to ignore your posts from now on because no self respecting person would be so rude to anyone. oh wait I'm not just anyone, I'm nazi muslim paranoid psychopathic maniac. i get it, too bad I'm not going anywhere. g'day

Just curious, if you are trying to be unattractive, why do women that wear what you are calling modest clothes, embellish their looks by applying makeup?

Isn't makeup designed to make a woman, or a guy, I suppose, more attractive?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Suslique 0]

masterblaster72

I find it difficult to understand why a woman would choose to dress in black formless clothing head to toe on a hot summer day, so thanks for your perspective on this.

What are your thoughts on full-face coverings like the Afghan burqa or the niqab? I struggle with this because in my view it dehumanizes a person by hiding her identity. It is also difficult to talk with someone whose facial expression you cannot read.

Regarding the right to dress this way -- do you think a country has the right to legislate against full-face coverings if said country feels it is inconsistent with its culture? France comes to mind in this case.

Cheers

hey there

no, full faced veil is considered not obligatory by vast majority of muslim scholars, woman may wear it or may not wear it, from religious point of view its permissible to not wear it.

anyways, black colour is not obligatory for hijab, it can be any colour woman wants, black colour is traditional Arab thing (it has a historical background, i need to google that, i don't remember the details but it has nothing to do with islam as far as i know), for example traditional Indonesian hijab is bright and colourful. so its a matter of personal choice. trust me, flowy maxi dress is perfect for hot summer day :)

now i think women's right to wear whatever they want should be respected. i know lots of niqabis (who wear full face veil) and they just like super privacy that it provides. you like it-- do it. i think government should not be allowed to deny women's right to wear it, or not to wear it. its a personal choice.

personally, its not for me, but I'm super laid back with anyone's choice, tattooed head to toe with pink mohawk -- cool beans, mini skirt -- your choice, niqab -- if you feel like it then do it.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[Suslique 0]

please refer to post #315

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[TriGirl 343]

Suslique

anyways, black colour is not obligatory for hijab, it can be any colour woman wants, black colour is traditional Arab thing (it has a historical background, i need to google that, i don't remember the details but it has nothing to do with islam as far as i know), for example traditional Indonesian hijab is bright and colourful. so its a matter of personal choice. trust me, flowy maxi dress is perfect for hot summer day :)

I asked the same question of my Bahraini rental agent -- she said it was because when the fabric gets wet (from sweating so much under 120 degrees), black is the color least likely to become see-through.

Then again, all the men were wearing white, so I never understood why it was okay to possibly see through their outer clothes. White is a cooler color to wear, so that does make sense to use white. But, her explanation of why she wore a black abaya also seemed reasonable. And yes, it was also of a very light, breezy, breathable fabric. Guess it could be of a much thinner fabric than the men's garments, because again, even when the black garment gets wet, you couldn't see the clothes worn underneath.
(note: the women wore very fashionable clothes under their abayas, while the men wore undershirts and shorts. Again, just a personal preference, I guess!)

I will also add, BTW, that both men and women there wore an over-garment, and a head covering of some sort. They seemed equivalent. The more modern and younger men wore ball caps, and their female counterparts often went without anything covering their hair. My local friends explained that they didn't want to mess up their hairstyles (though it was also explained that everyone respected each others' personal interpretations of "modest dress").

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[Suslique 0]

TriGirl

***

anyways, black colour is not obligatory for hijab, it can be any colour woman wants, black colour is traditional Arab thing (it has a historical background, i need to google that, i don't remember the details but it has nothing to do with islam as far as i know), for example traditional Indonesian hijab is bright and colourful. so its a matter of personal choice. trust me, flowy maxi dress is perfect for hot summer day :)

I asked the same question of my Bahraini rental agent -- she said it was because when the fabric gets wet (from sweating so much under 120 degrees), black is the color least likely to become see-through.

Then again, all the men were wearing white, so I never understood why it was okay to possibly see through their outer clothes. White is a cooler color to wear, so that does make sense to use white. But, her explanation of why she wore a black abaya also seemed reasonable. And yes, it was also of a very light, breezy, breathable fabric. Guess it could be of a much thinner fabric than the men's garments, because again, even when the black garment gets wet, you couldn't see the clothes worn underneath.
(note: the women wore very fashionable clothes under their abayas, while the men wore undershirts and shorts. Again, just a personal preference, I guess!)

I will also add, BTW, that both men and women there wore an over-garment, and a head covering of some sort. They seemed equivalent. The more modern and younger men wore ball caps, and their female counterparts often went without anything covering their hair. My local friends explained that they didn't want to mess up their hairstyles (though it was also explained that everyone respected each others' personal interpretations of "modest dress").

I've read somewhere (i can't find it, google gives me stupid results) that women and children used to wear black and men were wearing white because of the wars what were going on back in the history. if there was an attack during the night women and children were less noticeable because of the dark cloth hence protected. not sure if its true but it makes sense.

arab abayas are super light and comfortable, yes:) and when its hot its hot no matter what you wear anyways. i personally feel less hot in roomy abaya than in jeans for example.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

[turtlespeed 226]

Suslique

please refer to post #315

Post 315 says nothing about makeup.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Suslique 0]

turtlespeed

***please refer to post #315

Post 315 says nothing about makeup.

It answers the question that was asked about tight clothes that some women wear with hijab. The answer about makeup is the same as I wrote in my post #315. Bright attractive make up should not be done with hijab, do some women still do it? Yes. Can we judge them or accuse them of anything because they do it? No. Everyone has their own path and choices. It says nothing about their level of faith or whether they are hypocrite or not. Only God knows what's in the heart of a believer and why he or she does or doesn't do certain things.

'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?'
'That is the only time a man can be brave.'
George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones