Florida bars doctor advice to patients

[BIGUN 1,486]

"Where does it hurt"?
"When did you first notice the lump?"
"Is it just on the left side or on both sides?"
"Have you been vaccinated?"
"Is there a family history of heart disease?"

"Does your mommy or daddy have any whips or handcuffs in the house?"
"How many bottles of alcohol do your parents keep in the house?"
"Does mommy or daddy smoke marijuana?"
"Have you seen your parents speeding?"
"Do you have any guns in the house?"

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[rehmwa 2]

BIGUN

"Where does it hurt"?
"When did you first notice the lump?"
"Is it just on the left side or on both sides?"
"Have you been vaccinated?"
"Is there a family history of heart disease?"

"Does your mommy or daddy have any whips or handcuffs in the house?"
"How many bottles of alcohol do your parents keep in the house?"
"Does mommy or daddy smoke marijuana?"
"Have you seen your parents speeding?"
"Do you have any guns in the house?"

Who did you vote for last election?
What type of light bulbs do you use?
Tell me what you think of the whole Ferguson thing?



I'm not a fan of law of laws prohibiting discussion of anything - I'm with Jerry, people would be better off just knowing that they don't need to discuss anything with their doctor that the doctor would be unable to explain why it's medically necessary. As for kids being asked questions, parents should be in the room at all times. If that's not allowed by the doctor, then quickly get a new doctor.

Of course, knowing your doctor personally is a great solution for any of it.

I'm not cynical (let's assume that for arguments sake ), and I do believe that somewhere a bill to 'require' doctors to ask and keep records of patients that own firearms would be proposed. And eventually those records would be forced to be available to big brother.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

I don't like the restriction either.

I also don't think it is necessary to ask if someone has guns in their home before providing sound and general advice about child gun safety. Any advice about gun safety that a doctor would be in bounds providing should be heard by anyone with a child in case, heaven forbid, at some point in their childhood they encounter a gun other than in their home.

[rehmwa 2]

champu

I also don't think it is necessary to ask if someone has guns in their home before providing sound and general advice about child gun safety.

actually a great point - advise on firearms safety shouldn't require anyone to ask if guns are actually present. Especially doctors, who take notes on EVERYTHING

but I don't think first of doctors as experts in gun use/care/handling/storage/transport.

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

seems to be an obvious place to teach that is in school - a special certification for the training for the teacher of a gym class, shop class, or in health class likely the best fits - maybe a cheap and effective way to set up a pre-req for a permit to purchase - guns or parachutes, either way

good luck getting that to happen there....or in a practical and unbiased way

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Glitch 0]

With the precedent of the "illegal" Katrina gun grab, and even the Canuckians experiencing a similar gun grab recently when the RCMP broke into houses to effect the grab... it's not a big leap Professor.

Of course, it's generally considered "impossible" for TPTB to monitor our emails, tape conversations on cell phones, track our every movement via phone gps, for cops to be able to passively download your contacts/texts/pics/vids/calls history, etc. during a routine traffic stop, etc etc etc.. All of which, btw, are totally possible and happen every f'n day.

Besides all of the above, the FACT that I recently discovered, via online monitoring of my child's medical record, a record of "numerous firearms owned by parents" being listed. WTF?????? It took me 3 attempts to finally get that info removed from her file, as being totally irrelevant to her medical care.

So now is it far fetched?

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

***No. I'm shocked that bill calls it a bill to ban doctor advice. Doctor advice and questions from a doctor are pretty different things. Framing the issue in that way is disingenuous

Nonsense - that is a totally artificial distinction. Any doc needs to ask questions before knowing what advice to give.

"Where does it hurt"?
"When did you first notice the lump?"
"Is it just on the left side or on both sides?"
"Have you been vaccinated?"
"Is there a family history of heart disease?"

etc.

etc.

"Is there a gun in the house?"
"Yes."
"are there children in the house?"
"Yes"
"Well then I have some medical advice for you. Guns are a plague to society and there is no such thing as a safe gun..."

What is the medical advice that a physician can give? Having a gun in a safe in the closet isn't like smoking. Or drinking alcohol. It's more like having oleander in the back yard.

Seriously, though. Is gun ownership a medical condition for which a medical license is needed?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 897]

None of their business what we own and have in our homes.
Get a warrant.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

With the precedent of the "illegal" Katrina gun grab, and even the Canuckians experiencing a similar gun grab recently when the RCMP broke into houses to effect the grab... it's not a big leap Professor

And of course, the President has identified HIPAA as an unnecessary legal barrier to identifying people who have guns.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,150]

rehmwa

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

***

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

meh, cars, knives, surgical saws, fertilizers, swimming pools whatever you like. Perhaps the parent might be the right person to talk about those things?

"So, how many scissors do your parents own?" "where are they? can you get at them?" "how do you hold them when taking them from room to room? "let's talk about running with scissors"

Wouldn't it just be easier if everyone just listed all their property on a public google site? Then, it's easy for the Secretary of Home Safety to send out fleets of government Safety Counselors to each home to lecture all of us on how to live our lives. Perhaps they can assess each home and confiscate (normally legal) property that we clearly are not allowed to own. We could then auction off that property to fund the Dept of Home Safety. They could also inspect our light bulbs too while there. Perhaps bubble wrap furniture etc as needed.

It's a win win

For the children

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

rehmwa

******

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

meh, cars, knives, surgical saws, fertilizers, swimming pools whatever you like. Perhaps the parent might be the right person to talk about those things?



And as far as I know a doctor can ask about any of those things without being in danger of prosecution by the heavy hand of the state.

Apparently you couldn't find any instances of toddlers killing themselves with improperly packed parachutes.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

kallend

And as far as I know a doctor can ask about any of those things without being in danger of prosecution by the heavy hand of the state.

Apparently you couldn't find any instances of toddlers killing themselves with improperly packed parachutes.

you can be so snarky

apparently you didn't read the opinions of most of us that a law restricting his ability to ask is silly - that families should be able to just refuse to answer nonsense questions like this if they like. Leave it to you to take general agreement and pretend it's an opposing debate.

apparently you are unable to extend the idea that questions about personal property are just that and could apply to anything. leave it you to you be be completely blind to the overall argument when it's one of your pet issues

you are making it very difficult to avoid the impression that you would absolutely love the idea of a Dept of Home Safety just like I wrote out (good thing I know you better)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

***

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

Leading causes of accidental juvenile death are auto accidents, drowning, fire, falls, and poisoning. The number of accidental deaths for children is 5 in 100k. The CDC stat is that 0.11 in 100k children will die from a gun accident. (I thought I'd go into the statistics of per 100k for appeasement).

So 1 in a million. I prefer to look at the 124 per year, but the rate itself is pretty small when compared to things like cars and swimming pools. And there is no Constitutional right to a swimming pool or a car.

It's simple. I think over 100 accidental deaths of children is a problem. It is not a medical issue, though. I think that intentional killings is a far bigger problem, but sih 300 million guns in half the households in the US, it looks to me like the vast majority of gun owners are responsible gun owners. I think that swimming pools are a much larger problem. Fires are a much larger problem. And autos still are in the lead.

Guns have special status of being protected by the Constitution. Whether you agree with that or not is a separate question. The right to free speech doesn't mean a cop can stop you and ask you questions because there is a 4th amendment.

These rights all compete with each other. The Second Amendment stands in equal dignity with every other part of the Constitution.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Boomerdog 0]

Are there guns in my house?

One of these days I'll get asked that question by an MD.

My answer will be no guns in my house and that will be the end of that.

P.S. The guns are locked in a safe.

[champu 1]

rehmwa

seems to be an obvious place to teach that is in school - a special certification for the training for the teacher of a gym class, shop class, or in health class likely the best fits - maybe a cheap and effective way to set up a pre-req for a permit to purchase - guns or parachutes, either way

Well, that's fine once the child is old enough to go to school, but toddlers are more than capable of getting themselves in trouble before that. Doctors are, for better or for worse, really the only place people consistently bring babies and toddlers and so, pragmatically speaking, it is a reasonable venue to disseminate information about very young child safety.

And along those lines, I don't see anything wrong providing new parents with information about safety considerations in their home or when they visit family or friends. It should cover guns, stairs, toxins, pools, etc. whether or not the person has any of those things in their house because all those things exist in someone's house and there's a good chance you will find yourself with your toddler in one of those houses.

Gun owners would prefer doctors not ask the question about ownership and would prefer not to answer it for the same reason people don't like all those state laws that force doctors to basically give a lecture to a woman about how horrible a person they are and make them go and think about it for three days or whatever before they're allowed to come back and have an abortion. This regulation is stupid in the opposite direction, but the idea of a doctor shaming people for having an abortion or owning a gun when they have children in their house are both no good.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

And along those lines, I don't see anything wrong providing new parents with information about safety considerations in their home or when they visit family or friends. It should cover guns, stairs, toxins, pools, etc. whether or not the person has any of those things in their house because all those things exist in someone's house and there's a good chance you will find yourself with your toddler in one of those houses.

I like this. Just a checklist/booklet new parents can refer to of all the potentially risky things in a household, what the risk to children is, and what precautions might be taken. Some things seem obvious, yet it's also easy to overlook potential problems, especially if you're overtired or dealing with a big lifestyle change (new baby in addition to older siblings in the household). There is a reason pilots have checklists. Doctors shouldn't have to ask about guns in the household any more than they ask about swimming pools or stairs, but there's no harm in providing literature to educate parents. The doctor should not have to ask, and so she would not have any information to pass on to "big brother".

On the other hand, "gag orders" like this law nicely illustrate how the NRA has our legislators firmly by the short and curlies.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 3,119]

>One of these days I'll get asked that question by an MD.
>My answer will be no guns in my house and that will be the end of that.

Far too simple a solution for our government.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

*********

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

meh, cars, knives, surgical saws, fertilizers, swimming pools whatever you like. Perhaps the parent might be the right person to talk about those things?



And as far as I know a doctor can ask about any of those things without being in danger of prosecution by the heavy hand of the state.

Apparently you couldn't find any instances of toddlers killing themselves with improperly packed parachutes.

I dont care if he asks me
I can tell him to shove it

I do care if he would ask my minor children
I would work to put his ass in jail if he did ask

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Boomerdog 0]

You have a solution?

[kallend 2,150]

lawrocket

******

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

Leading causes of accidental juvenile death are auto accidents, drowning, fire, falls, and poisoning. The number of accidental deaths for children is 5 in 100k. The CDC stat is that 0.11 in 100k children will die from a gun accident. (I thought I'd go into the statistics of per 100k for appeasement).



Where are the improperly packed parachutes in that list?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

champu

Well, that's fine once the child is old enough to go to school, but toddlers are more than capable of getting themselves in trouble before that.

simple, license and fee, background check required before having a child.

once you have one, it must be kept locked up in a secure cabinet when not in direct use

NEVER leave a loaded child laying around on an end table or in the kitchen, for example

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

champu

for the same reason people don't like all those state laws that force doctors to basically give a lecture to a woman about how horrible a person they are and make them go and think about it for three days or whatever before they're allowed to come back and have an abortion. This regulation is stupid in the opposite direction,

i'm good with this - but it does depend on what and how the doctor gives advice in each scenario - but if we make it required, or illegal, eventually laws will be passed defining to the doctor his script. that's another reason not to pass laws that require, or forbid simple discussion......


I like your 2nd paragraph just fine, but why the doctor? - big brother can just mail the pamphlets to each citizen, or they can be handed out on election day, etc etc etc

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

*********

Maybe doctors should ask if there are any parachutes in the house so they can decide to give safety training on the use and packing and handling gear.

Perhaps you'll provide links to some instances of children finding improperly packed parachutes in the house and killing themselves or someone else with it.

Then you MIGHT have a point.

Leading causes of accidental juvenile death are auto accidents, drowning, fire, falls, and poisoning. The number of accidental deaths for children is 5 in 100k. The CDC stat is that 0.11 in 100k children will die from a gun accident. (I thought I'd go into the statistics of per 100k for appeasement).



Where are the improperly packed parachutes in that list?

It would come under "falls."

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

lawrocket

It would come under "falls."

ceiling injuries - if that pilot chute comes out, and that parachute jumps straight up through the roof like in the movies, a kid could get pulled up with it

if a doctor doesn't tell our kids not to pull the string, who will?

WHO WILL?



(see what I did there? non-gun owners know about as much about guns as non-skydivers know about gear. And, it doesn't matter if there are accidents on record or not, if the public gets scared by the anti-parachute lobby, then the vote buyers will 'do something'.....for the children. The discussion will likely go a lot like Hillary describing how many I-Phones are needed to access a googler mail account on the intrewebs)

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

Guns have special status of being protected by the Constitution. Whether you agree with that or not is a separate question. The right to free speech doesn't mean a cop can stop you and ask you questions because there is a 4th amendment.

I think you're wrong, you're looking at it in the wrong way and that's why there's a disagreement. A cop can ask you questions about pretty much anything, he needs cause to hold you and compell an answer.

That's where I think you guys are getting fuzzy, the difference between asking and demanding.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?