Lots of Guns being purchased

[SkyDekker 1,465]

BleuCiel

***Just as the violence in Iraq is a direct consequence of violent American culture.

So Iraq wasn't a violent place before America went in?

Depended on which group you belonged to.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

******Just as the violence in Iraq is a direct consequence of violent American culture.

So Iraq wasn't a violent place before America went in?

Depended on which group you belonged to.

Was not a good place for those that SH gassed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

True.

Maybe it would have been a bit better place if the US hadn't sold him those chemical weapons to begin with.

You have to wonder why those people aren't happy to see you liberate them after you supplied the stuff that gassed their family members....silly brown people.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

True.

Maybe it would have been a bit better place if the US hadn't sold him those chemical weapons to begin with.

You have to wonder why those people aren't happy to see you liberate them after you supplied the stuff that gassed their family members....silly brown people.

SH had his own factories
And why to call people of differnt colors silly?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

SH had his own factories

Ohhh, he must have discarded the stuff the US supplied him and only used what he manufactured himself.

[ibx 2]

Quote

So Iraq wasn't a violent place before America went in?

I don't think the situations are even remotely comparable.

[ibx 2]

Quote

Yes
dont you?

I never implied otherwise but
The US culture as a whole is not as violent as you and others would have us believe
The context of what is really happening is important to understanding what really is going on

Of course I do and that's why their actions directly reflect violent American culture.
Your country is objectively the most violent developed nation within any context.

Violence is also independent of context because arguing like that would mean the violence happening in the inner cities is for some reason less tragic than the same happening in suburbia.

[rushmc 23]

ibx

Quote

Yes
dont you?

I never implied otherwise but
The US culture as a whole is not as violent as you and others would have us believe
The context of what is really happening is important to understanding what really is going on

Of course I do and that's why their actions directly reflect violent American culture.
Your country is objectively the most violent developed nation within any context.

Violence is also independent of context because arguing like that would mean the violence happening in the inner cities is for some reason less tragic than the same happening in suburbia.

More than the culture, your example refects the policies that magnify the violence

That being where the most violence exists is where the government is handing out the most. This is a large part of the problem as people do not feel good about themselves (generally speaking) when they are not doing something productive

So, it seems (and I am guessing here so forgive me if I am wrong) you would have that same government take away a right

So
I disagree that violence is independant of context. To ignore why does not allow anyone to find a real root cause

I think we can safely say that more guns or gun ownership does not relate to the violence, because as gun ownership has increased, gun violence has decreased

Still
the over all cutler of this country is less violent than many want us to belive

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

That being where the most violence exists is where the government is handing out the most. This is a large part of the problem as people do not feel good about themselves (generally speaking) when they are not doing something productive

For that logic to be true, socialist and communist countries (in your view that would be Canada and all of Europe) would have to be extremely violent.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

That being where the most violence exists is where the government is handing out the most. This is a large part of the problem as people do not feel good about themselves (generally speaking) when they are not doing something productive

For that logic to be true, socialist and communist countries (in your view that would be Canada and all of Europe) would have to be extremely violent.

Not really
Different history and attitude

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[BIGUN 1,486]

SkyDekker

Quote

SH had his own factories

Ohhh, he must have discarded the stuff the US supplied him and only used what he manufactured himself.

In this case, you are both right.

Desert Storm pretty much decimated Saddam's WMD Program amd Saddam supposedly ended Iraq's nuclear program after the war. In the Mid-90's, he shifted to re-tooling his factories back to WMDs and the gas/nerve agents. In 1998, Clinton's Operation Desert Fox hit 100 primary targets - this too was not without its own controversy. Then...

Anyway, if you're interested enough... search for Operation Desert Fox and the Duefler Report and it'll take you on a journey of which you both speak.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[ibx 2]

Quote

More than the culture, your example refects the policies that magnify the violence

That's of course true and policy is made by elected officials who are elected by the people who share violent ideals. Being tough on crime, the death penalty, foreign wars, castle doctrine to name but a few.

Quote

That being where the most violence exists is where the government is handing out the most. This is a large part of the problem as people do not feel good about themselves (generally speaking) when they are not doing something productive

I think the problem is much more complicated than that. I suggest you start with the concept of equal opportunity.

Quote

So, it seems (and I am guessing here so forgive me if I am wrong) you would have that same government take away a right

I don't believe the government should completely take away the right to own firearms, I just don't think they should be available at wal-mart.
FWIW I think German gun ownership laws are way over the top. There must be middle ground.

Quote

So
I disagree that violence is independant of context. To ignore why does not allow anyone to find a real root cause

I think we can safely say that more guns or gun ownership does not relate to the violence, because as gun ownership has increased, gun violence has decreased

Context always becomes important the closer one examines a subject. If I want to talk about general violence in the US I don't care who is killing who because for me, all American lives equal the same.

I don't think we can safely say that at all. More guns mean more gun violence, it's super simple.
Correlation does not equal causation. Crime in general has gone down considerably and gun violence with it.

Quote

Still
the over all cutler of this country is less violent than many want us to belive

I agree with you here.

[rushmc 23]

Thanks for the reply
For the most part we agree
Save for two points
Guns at a Walmart are not an issue IMO
Second
If more guns simply meant more violence then the FBI stats would show differently than they do today and for the last 20 eyars

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

ibx

If I want to talk about general violence in the US I don't care who is killing who because for me, all American lives equal the same.

...

More guns mean more gun violence, it's super simple.

Both statements are total horse shit.

A gang banger ex con with multiple outstanding felony warrants killed in a drive by = a working parent of 4 children killed by a stray bullet in the above drive by? Only on a biological process level.

Guns are tools just as hammers are tools. Quantity of a tool has no direct correlation with their usage. Someone could buy 35 hammers and never drive in a single nail. At the same time another person with one hammer could drive in thousands of nails.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

A gang banger ex con with multiple outstanding felony warrants killed in a drive by = a working parent of 4 children killed by a stray bullet in the above drive by? Only on a biological process level.

Which is exactly the mindset displayed by extremists. Their point of view is most important, those who do not describe to that and die are a non-issue.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

A gang banger ex con with multiple outstanding felony warrants killed in a drive by = a working parent of 4 children killed by a stray bullet in the above drive by? Only on a biological process level.

Which is exactly the mindset displayed by extremists. Their point of view is most important, those who do not describe to that and die are a non-issue.

What or who do you say are these so called "extremists"?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Any radical extremist.

Any version where a human being killed is seen as not a big deal.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Any radical extremist.

Any version where a human being killed is seen as not a big deal.

How about an example or something more specific?

Cause I dont know anyone with this description

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,118]

>>Any version where a human being killed is seen as not a big deal.

>How about an example or something more specific?

Catfishhunter - "Glass fucking parking lot...all I have to say about it"

Rhino - "We should drop the largest hydrogen bomb known to man on that fucking place.. Pull the troops.. and BOOM!!! Glass parking lot!!"

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>>Any version where a human being killed is seen as not a big deal.

>How about an example or something more specific?

Catfishhunter - "Glass fucking parking lot...all I have to say about it"

Rhino - "We should drop the largest hydrogen bomb known to man on that fucking place.. Pull the troops.. and BOOM!!! Glass parking lot!!"

So, how do these examples relate to this thread and what Sky posted?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I will say I will be very wary of examples you post now after what you used to say I hate Obama

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,118]

>So, how do these examples relate to this thread and what Sky posted?

To repeat: "Which is exactly the mindset displayed by extremists. Their point of view is most important, those who do not describe to that and die are a non-issue." Nuking everyone in a country because you are angry is perhaps the most extreme example of that.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>So, how do these examples relate to this thread and what Sky posted?

To repeat: "Which is exactly the mindset displayed by extremists. Their point of view is most important, those who do not describe to that and die are a non-issue." Nuking everyone in a country because you are angry is perhaps the most extreme example of that.

Nothing angry has been posted in this thread until you posted this

strawman

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln