CameraNewbie 0 #1 January 16, 2015 Youtube video of: Civil Rights Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios Topics to discuss on this post are Civil Rights Activist, Reverend Jarrett Maupin's quotes. Watch the vid first and tell us if you agree or disagree with his statments and why? "I shot because he was in the zone. I didn't necessarily see him armed but he came clearly to do some harm to the officer, to my person. It's hard to make that call. It shakes you up." "I didn't understand how important compliance was but after going through this, yeah my attitude has changed. This is all unfolding in 10-15 seconds. People need to comply with law enforcement officers for their own sake".What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #2 January 16, 2015 CameraNewbieYoutube video of: Civil Rights Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios Topics to discuss on this post are Civil Rights Activist, Reverend Jarrett Maupin's quotes. Watch the vid first and tell us if you agree or disagree with his statments and why? "I shot because he was in the zone. I didn't necessarily see him armed but he came clearly to do some harm to the officer, to my person. It's hard to make that call. It shakes you up." "I didn't understand how important compliance was but after going through this, yeah my attitude has changed. This is all unfolding in 10-15 seconds. People need to comply with law enforcement officers for their own sake". It seems like the Rev. learned a few things. I would like to see a trained leo's version of how that would be handled.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #3 January 16, 2015 I was very surprised to see both the activist, and the reporter shoot the unarmed guy without even so much as being touched. The part where the role player shoots blanks at them was eye opening for them also. In a split second it went from inquiry about why your looking into a truck to a gunfight. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #4 January 16, 2015 Seems to me that compliance is for YOUR safety as much as the officers'. Needing to subdue or restrain someone being questioned may appear aggressive but it's for everyone's safety and best interest. Now, try to get that concept across to militant bystanders while being heckled and provoked. Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #5 January 16, 2015 I thought the video was good to see. Kudos to the activist and journalist for agreeing to do that. Unfortunately you didn't make the actual video or the scenarious, nor tools provided on topic, since I have some observations/discussion points regarding that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CameraNewbie 0 #6 January 16, 2015 QuoteI thought the video was good to see. Kudos to the activist and journalist for agreeing to do that. Unfortunately you didn't make the actual video or the scenarious, nor tools provided on topic, since I have some observations/discussion points regarding that. Awesome so you saw the video and here are the two topics: "I shot because he was in the zone. I didn't necessarily see him armed but he came clearly to do some harm to the officer, to my person. It's hard to make that call. It shakes you up." "I didn't understand how important compliance was but after going through this, yeah my attitude has changed. This is all unfolding in 10-15 seconds. People need to comply with law enforcement officers for their own sake". What's your discussion about these two topics?What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #7 January 16, 2015 I thought the sequence in the scenarios and the tools provided were a clever way to ensure an almost guanranteed trigger pull in the second scenario. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #8 January 16, 2015 SkyDekkerI thought the sequence in the scenarios and the tools provided were a clever way to ensure an almost guanranteed trigger pull in the second scenario. Cadet Kirk - do you, of all people, deny the possibility of a no-win scenario? (I think you look at the scenarios and decide if they are reasonable possibilities. You'd still have to say yes. I suspect they did a lot of others with better results. They'd have to anyway to get the activists to achieve the proper level of comfort/complacency prior to surprising them with the scary ones. That would be a proper training method. Suspect that these were published on the video as they were the learning experience that some people deny. The ones where they ask the guy to calm down and relax and he did? boring vid) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CameraNewbie 0 #9 January 17, 2015 QuoteI thought the sequence in the scenarios and the tools provided were a clever way to ensure an almost guanranteed trigger pull in the second scenario. I find it very amusing that you feel it was "CLEVER" way to provoke a shooting. It's amusing because the Civil Rights Activist does not share your same sentiment. "I shot because he was in the zone. I didn't necessarily see him armed but he came clearly to do some harm to the officer, to my person. It's hard to make that call. It shakes you up." He never stated that it was a clever way to make him shoot. A Civil Rights Activist completely understood that things can take a hairpin turn at any given moment when someone doesn't comply but you don't seem to realize that point. The Civil Rights Activist said "I didn't understand how important compliance was but after going through this, yeah my attitude has changed. This is all unfolding in 10-15 seconds. People need to comply with law enforcement officers for their own sake". Plain and simple, people need to comply with law enforcement officers for their own sake! There you have it.What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #10 January 19, 2015 QuoteCadet Kirk - do you, of all people, deny the possibility of a no-win scenario? Not at all. But where any other tools provided than a gun? In the first scenario the participant is shown how quickly things can go south. The participant never stood a chance and got shot. In my opnion that helps create a mindset for the participant that in the next scenario he better react before the "perp" has an opportunity to. Anyways, I don't disagree with the message of the whole thing. Just stating that in my opinion the scenarios were clerverly set up to provide maximum opportunity to deliver the desired result. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 January 19, 2015 I'd still hold off on the 'they are manipulating the guy' theory until we find out the entire training sequence. If it's just those 3 clips, you have a point, but as I already noted, I suspect they ran a few more scenarios than just the scenarios in the video. And regardless, I still think the point made is a valid one. As for them providing more 'tools' - would you then be upset if the video showed the guy fumbling for 3 or 4 different things before being 'killed'? That would have made the point even more emphatically. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #12 January 19, 2015 rehmwaI'd still hold off on the 'they are manipulating the guy' theory until we find out the entire training sequence. If it's just those 3 clips, you have a point, but as I already noted, I suspect they ran a few more scenarios than just the scenarios in the video. And regardless, I still think the point made is a valid one. As for them providing more 'tools' - would you then be upset if the video showed the guy fumbling for 3 or 4 different things before being 'killed'? That would have made the point even more emphatically. Agreed, if there were more scenarios, or the scenarios weren't really in that order then my point is certainly less valid, or not valid at all. With regards to other tools, they could have been successful in the second scenario, but if all you are providing as a tool is a gun, then that is the only tool he can use. Baton, peperspray, taser were options that could have been used in that second scenario, but that wasn't available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #13 January 19, 2015 QuoteBaton, peperspray, taser were options that could have been used in that second scenario, but that wasn't available. I dont really think the point of the exercise was for them to resolve the situation properly, but to demonstrate what cops face, and the time frame decisions have to be made, and how life and death is only fractions of a second apart. You dont need any training to experience that, only told that you are going to face situations which cops are exposed to, react however you think a cop should. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #14 January 19, 2015 Quotereact however you think a cop should Except they can't do that if you do not provide the tools required. If your only tool is a hammer..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #15 January 19, 2015 You glazed over the part where I said I think the goal was to have them experience the scenario and see how quickly shit hits the fan. Not correctly chose the right action and successfully complete the scenario. Which was their exact comments at the end when they said it just happened so fast, the only choice is to comply. Their reactions were just a bonus. Them getting shot or shooting the guy was not the goal IMO, but was a pleasing outcome for the scenario givers. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
