What do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want it? NOW!!!!

[Andy9o8 2]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

Peni are even more dangerous, they are solely responsible for pregnancy as well.

Not solely; there are also turkey basters, swimming pools and black patent leather shoes on Catholic girls.

Those are myths.

So is the premise of the OP.
So I guess we've come full circle.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Isn't this exactly what the 2nd amendment is for? When the populace believes government is out of control.

Many believe that the police and the judicial system are out of control and biased against minorities. Didn't the founding father's allow for an armed response?

Obviously this is very sad, but I think pretty reflective of the type of society that has been created. In American society the answer to many problems tends to be overwhlemingly in favour of violence.

[billvon 3,080]

>Newspaper Article: Veteran NYPD cop dies in Brooklyn after ex-con shoves him down
>stairs during domestic dispute arrest

Not the ex-con's fault. The cop was overweight, so that's why he died.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Not the ex-con's fault. The cop was overweight, so that's why he died.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 860]

You missed the connection. Entirely.

[Anvilbrother 0]

No I diddnt. I know exactly where it comes from. The choking out of the guy selling loose cigs. Thanks for assuming things tho. It's just stupid to come in here and throw out that one liner which is only ment to inflame others, and has no connection to the topic otherwise.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

And now the NY legislature wants to install "bullet proof" glass in all the cop cars in New York state.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/22/ny-lawmakers-call-for-bullet-proof-police-car-windows-after-2-nypd-officers-killed/

No concern for the cost or how to pay for it, no thoughts that it has happened very rarely in the past, no thought that you have to armor the entire car for it to be of any real use; typical "knee-jerk" reaction by the ignorant.

FWIW, properly armoring a car, even against low-power pistol rounds is very expensive. Easily doubles the cost of the car. And the "glass" is actually a polymer that is damaged by sunlight. It has to be replaced on a yearly basis. More $$$$.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[ryoder 1,590]

Fox News, keepin' it classy: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-wbff-edit-protest-kill-a-cop

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Darius11 12]

CameraNewbie

Quote

Really doesn't matter. When we have people demonstrating in the streets that they want dead cops we are in a world of hurt.

How about this? These peaceful protesters chant that they want cops to die now. Yet, the same cops that the protesters are chanting for cops to die are the same cops walking behind them while protecting their rights to march, whether these cops agree with their opinion or not.

Protecting their rights from who? Who was trying to take their rights that the cops stopped!?

You are born with all your rights all THEY do is limit, restrict or completely take away them. They are the mechanisms in the government the same ones that keep you safe are the same ones that bring you harm.

The idea that They the police are the reason you have freedom of speech, or to protest is inaccurate.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

This is not rocket science in any conflict it is the same,

No justice, no peace.

How many times have the police killed a minority and got away with it? How many times do they get a paid vacation (paid suspension) when they kill someone? How many times have they received much much lower sentences then any of us would if they do get punished at all?

Guess what happens people get fed up when there is no justice and you get rage.

Who fucked up? who is responsible? The judges and DAs who did not dole out justice.

Tragic yes but Helen Keller could see this coming i am surprised it hadn't happened much much sooner.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[xsniper 1]

Darius11

This is not rocket science in any conflict it is the same,

No justice, no peace.

How many times have the police killed a minority and got away with it? How many times do they get a paid vacation (paid suspension) when they kill someone? How many times have they received much much lower sentences then any of us would if they do get punished at all?

Guess what happens people get fed up when there is no justice and you get rage.

Who fucked up? who is responsible? The judges and DAs who did not dole out justice.

Tragic yes but Helen Keller could see this coming i am surprised it hadn't happened much much sooner.

So...are you carrying the idea that this was justified??

[bigbearfng 18]

Cops shoot over 400 civilians every year on average, many of them unarmed and guilty of nothing.

_________________________________________________


Sure do wish I could put all the folk living in lala land thru a day long shoot/don't shoot scenario training class.......

[champu 1]

bigbearfng

Sure do wish I could put all the folk living in lala land thru a day long shoot/don't shoot scenario training class.......

Out of curiosity... If you put someone through the simulations, at the end of the day how many scenarios were "shoot" and how many were "no shoot."

[bigbearfng 18]

champu

***Sure do wish I could put all the folk living in lala land thru a day long shoot/don't shoot scenario training class.......

Out of curiosity... If you put someone through the simulations, at the end of the day how many scenarios were "shoot" and how many were "no shoot."

completely variable. An instructor runs the simulation from behind you, and it is interactive. In the scenarios it depends on your response.
One example of a simple scenario-I had a traffic stop. My partner approached the van which suddenly reversed hitting him and he's lying unresponsive on the ground. The driver then exits and runs towards me pulling an object out of a back pocket. I fired. My scenario was the driver was a dufus that accidently hit the gas in reverse and was being further stupid by reaching for his wallet rapidly while running towards me.
The next dep got the same scenario-however his was a bad guy pulling out a gun, not a wallet. The dep hesitated and was shot.
It gives you a sense of real world split second decisions that cops face without the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[champu 1]

Thanks for the response. I've watched a couple hours of video of that type of training (guy fumbling around outside shed saying he's locked himself out, stressed out woman answers front door with hand behind her back, etc.) and was wondering if the balance was reasonable.

I know they have very similar scenarios that can go both ways but I wonder if that puts too much focus on the split second. What I mean by that is I hope they make the scenarios different enough such that both types of successes and errors can be debriefed effectively, realistically, and in a statistically meaningful way.

As I've agreed before, split second decisions suck. LEOs should spend at least as much time training how to make fewer of them as how to make them better.

[FastRon 0]

"The shooter wanted revenge for Eric garner and mike brown and wanted to make sure the white cops got what they had coming to them."

All white cops being the same I suppose?- and thus all deserve to die??? Really?

FYI- for a whole lot of people, thuggery IS most certainly a way of life. Sad but true.

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

No justice, no peace.

We are entitled to due process per the United States Constitution.

Hopefully, we all hope to receive the desired outcome of that due process but that is not always the case and it is not something any of us are entitled to.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

bigbearfng

...One example of a simple scenario-I had a traffic stop. My partner approached the van which suddenly reversed hitting him and he's lying unresponsive on the ground. The driver then exits and runs towards me pulling an object out of a back pocket. I fired. My scenario was the driver was a dufus that accidently hit the gas in reverse and was being further stupid by reaching for his wallet rapidly while running towards me...

Well, IMO, that wasn't a 'Bad' decision, even though it was the 'wrong' one (or maybe the other way around?).
The (now dead) citizen caused the actions that resulted in his getting shot. Accidentally and stupidly, but I see that shooting as "justified."

There are more than a few current examples, though, of the cop's actions that were the primary cause.

Sneaking up close behind someone, hollering "FREEZE" and then shooting him when he jumps and turns around.
Opening fire on a vehicle that only loosely matches the description of the suspect vehicle (and doesn't match at all when given anything more than superficial examination) because it's "driving slowly."
Pulling up within easy pistol shot of a "man with a gun" subject and then shooting almost instantly when the kid reaches for the object.
Getting out of the squad car after a high speed chase seems to be over, then opening fire on the suspect car when it turns out not to be disabled or stuck because they were afraid he was trying to run them over (although it's pretty clear he was just trying to escape).

All of those are attributable to really bad tactics on the part of the cops. Not "split second" decisions.

The primary "bad tactic" seems to be the "run toward the sound of the guns." If it's not a life or death situation, hang back a second and see what the hell is going on.
One thing I was taught is that "It's almost never what it looks like at first glance."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[bigbearfng 18]

wolfriverjoe

***

...One example of a simple scenario-I had a traffic stop. My partner approached the van which suddenly reversed hitting him and he's lying unresponsive on the ground. The driver then exits and runs towards me pulling an object out of a back pocket. I fired. My scenario was the driver was a dufus that accidently hit the gas in reverse and was being further stupid by reaching for his wallet rapidly while running towards me...

Well, IMO, that wasn't a 'Bad' decision, even though it was the 'wrong' one (or maybe the other way around?).
The (now dead) citizen caused the actions that resulted in his getting shot. Accidentally and stupidly, but I see that shooting as "justified."

There are more than a few current examples, though, of the cop's actions that were the primary cause.

Sneaking up close behind someone, hollering "FREEZE" and then shooting him when he jumps and turns around.
Opening fire on a vehicle that only loosely matches the description of the suspect vehicle (and doesn't match at all when given anything more than superficial examination) because it's "driving slowly."
Pulling up within easy pistol shot of a "man with a gun" subject and then shooting almost instantly when the kid reaches for the object.
Getting out of the squad car after a high speed chase seems to be over, then opening fire on the suspect car when it turns out not to be disabled or stuck because they were afraid he was trying to run them over (although it's pretty clear he was just trying to escape).

All of those are attributable to really bad tactics on the part of the cops. Not "split second" decisions.

The primary "bad tactic" seems to be the "run toward the sound of the guns." If it's not a life or death situation, hang back a second and see what the hell is going on.
One thing I was taught is that "It's almost never what it looks like at first glance."


Totally agree on the bad tactics part above.
Whether it's inadequate training or adrenaline control/heat of the moment or whatever you want to call it vs anything intentional has to be looked at individually.

Only thing I had to disagree with was the "run toward the sound of guns" as bad tactics. Active shooter in school/mall etc.- the longer you hang back the more victims there are.
That's just part of the job! Other folk run away......

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Cops shoot over 400 civilians every year on average, many of them unarmed and guilty of nothing.

'

Bullshit do your own research the number of shootings is about right, but only about 12 of the shootings are legit and legal.

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[SkyDekker 1,465]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Cops shoot over 400 civilians every year on average, many of them unarmed and guilty of nothing.

'

Bullshit do your own research the number of shootings is about right, but only about 12 of the shootings are legit and legal.

Yup, generally determined by the same police department the shooter was from.

I am sure there is no bias and it is a completely neutral process.

[normiss 860]

Stop resisting!

[Anvilbrother 0]

Go to the list of shootings like I did and go down the list with a pen and paper LIKE I DID. Next to each shooting write down the nature of the shooting, and if you think the cop acted in response to a lethal action upon him, or a citizen. Or if the cop was an illegal aggressor and shot someone in cold blood.


I did that instead of listening to bullshit numbers spouted here, or from click bait media. You will find that out of those 400+- shootings that 80-90% of the time the shooting was in response to
-People shooting at the cops
-People attempting vehicular homicide on the cops
-Hostages
-Other situations where if you actually read the report yourself you would agree it was justified.

At the end of reading the IIRC 2011 list of shootings there was only about 10 killings that was and I even stated illegal as fuck. Most of them were charged, some already in prison, some awaiting trial.

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[SkyDekker 1,465]

Anvilbrother

Go to the list of shootings like I did and go down the list with a pen and paper LIKE I DID. Next to each shooting write down the nature of the shooting, and if you think the cop acted in response to a lethal action upon him, or a citizen. Or if the cop was an illegal aggressor and shot someone in cold blood.


I did that instead of listening to bullshit numbers spouted here, or from click bait media. You will find that out of those 400+- shootings that 80-90% of the time the shooting was in response to
-People shooting at the cops
-People attempting vehicular homicide on the cops
-Hostages
-Other situations where if you actually read the report yourself you would agree it was justified.

At the end of reading the IIRC 2011 list of shootings there was only about 10 killings that was and I even stated illegal as fuck. Most of them were charged, some already in prison, some awaiting trial.

Without more information it is a stupid exercise.

Take the 12 year old in Cleveland. The way the police handled the situation it is a justified shooting.

Most sane people realize that if the police had handled the situation with tact that 12 year old would likely still be alive.

So, in the US that is a justified shooting. In the rest of the modern world that shooting would not have taken place.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Given the option to seek the info yourself you like kallend once again choose to ignore the facts out there that show the truth!

I ask you again go to the 2011 shootings and do what I did and find out for yourself that spouting 400 cop murders per year bullshit is completely misleading.

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