ryoder 1,590 #1 December 17, 2014 Long overdue!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-cuba-releases-us-prisoner-alan-gross-135632848--politics.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #2 December 17, 2014 Now maybe Fidel Castro will finally die."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #3 December 17, 2014 ryoderLong overdue!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-cuba-releases-us-prisoner-alan-gross-135632848--politics.html It's a great move. It's sure gonna be fun to see Rubio's and Cruz's reaction to this, their gonna be pissed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #4 December 17, 2014 BillyVanceNow maybe Fidel Castro will finally die. You know he has retired and Raúl Castro is in charge, right? For years I've been reading that the biggest lobby to maintain the sanctions is: The Cuban ex-pats. And the biggest source of violations of those sanctions: The Cuban ex-pats (sending money to relatives in Cuba). The whole thing has been asinine."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #5 December 17, 2014 jclalor***Long overdue!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-cuba-releases-us-prisoner-alan-gross-135632848--politics.html It's a great move. It's sure gonna be fun to see Rubio's and Cruz's reaction to this, their gonna be pissed. I just caught a few minutes of Rubio's reaction on the radio and you are correct. He said "our president is the worst negotiator ever in the white house." but on a lighter note: "Licensed American travelers to Cuba will now be able to return to the U.S. with $400 in Cuban goods, including tobacco and alcohol products worth less than $100 combined" mmmm Cuban cigarsYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #6 December 17, 2014 ryoder***Now maybe Fidel Castro will finally die. You know he has retired and Raúl Castro is in charge, right? For years I've been reading that the biggest lobby to maintain the sanctions is: The Cuban ex-pats. And the biggest source of violations of those sanctions: The Cuban ex-pats (sending money to relatives in Cuba). The whole thing has been asinine. Yeah I know Raul has been in charge the last few years. We've swapped prisoners with them already today"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #7 December 17, 2014 ryoderLong overdue!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-cuba-releases-us-prisoner-alan-gross-135632848--politics.html Indeed.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #8 December 17, 2014 Rick but on a lighter note: "Licensed American travelers to Cuba will now be able to return to the U.S. with $400 in Cuban goods, including tobacco and alcohol products worth less than $100 combined" mmmm Cuban cigars But they won't be as highly desirable once they're legal."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #9 December 17, 2014 This decision will be a great boon to the economy of Tampa FL. Also, look for Cuban food restaurant chains across the nation with HQ in Tampa, i.e. Ybor City.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #10 December 17, 2014 RonD1120 This decision will be a great boon to the economy of Tampa FL. Also, look for Cuban food restaurant chains across the nation with HQ in Tampa, i.e. Ybor City. and also the economy of Cuba. Probably won't be long now before it is opened for tourism also. as far as the restaurants one of our customers great food You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #11 December 17, 2014 ryoder *** but on a lighter note: "Licensed American travelers to Cuba will now be able to return to the U.S. with $400 in Cuban goods, including tobacco and alcohol products worth less than $100 combined" mmmm Cuban cigars But they won't be as highly desirable once they're legal.very true and only $100 worth per traveler that is maybe 10 cigarsYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #12 December 17, 2014 Agreed. Overdue. It's been over a half a century and our policy goals have failed. Now if we can admit some other policy failures (war on Drugs, War on Poverty, welfare, Medicare, Social Security) then perhaps we can get somewhere. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 December 17, 2014 lawrocketAgreed. Overdue. It's been over a half a century and our policy goals have failed. Now if we can admit some other policy failures (war on Drugs, War on Poverty, welfare, Medicare, Social Security) then perhaps we can get somewhere. World's policeman? War on terror? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #14 December 17, 2014 I think many here in the US would be surprised at the level of tourism going on in Cuba. One time in Jamaica an airline was offering a day trip to Cuba. We considered it but declined. I wasn't sure how a stamp in my passport from Cuba would go over in the states. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d2xGozti6s Finally a new market for mid 50's Chevys and the odd VW.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 379 #15 December 17, 2014 While many in the US would like to believe the Iron Curtain fell because Regan went to Berlin and ordered Gorbachev to "tear down this wall", in reality it had vastly more to do with the fact that people in Eastern Europe were increasingly able to see how people in the West lived, and realized what a colossal lie the Soviet empire was pushing. Communication, trade, people moving back and forth: no totalitarian regime can withstand that. The most powerful weapon the Western democracies have is the fact that despite their imperfections people here are vastly better off than people in any communist or totalitarian nation. As soon as trade was opened between Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Western Europe the Iron Curtain was bound to eventually collapse. I'll acknowledge that the US did spend the Soviets under the table on defense, too, and ultimately the Soviets could not keep up. Sanctions have completely failed to change the Cuban government. Tourism and iphones (i.e. money) should do the trick. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #16 December 17, 2014 ryoder *** but on a lighter note: "Licensed American travelers to Cuba will now be able to return to the U.S. with $400 in Cuban goods, including tobacco and alcohol products worth less than $100 combined" mmmm Cuban cigars But they won't be as highly desirable once they're legal.True. People will realize some of the Nicaraguan and Dominican sticks that they've been smoking all along are just as good.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #17 December 18, 2014 I got a wake up this AM. Listening to the Tampa FL radio, they announced the results of a poll indicating that 87% were against the normalizing relations with Cuba. Many in Tampa are Cuban refugees and remember the horrors of living under Castro. They believe this decision will make the communist regime wealthier and do nothing for the common citizen.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #18 December 18, 2014 RonD1120I got a wake up this AM. Listening to the Tampa FL radio, they announced the results of a poll indicating that 87% were against the normalizing relations with Cuba. Many in Tampa are Cuban refugees and remember the horrors of living under Castro. They believe this decision will make the communist regime wealthier and do nothing for the common citizen. A small minority of disgruntled ex . Cubans shouldn't be driving foreign policy.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #19 December 18, 2014 RonD1120I got a wake up this AM. Listening to the Tampa FL radio, they announced the results of a poll indicating that 87% were against the normalizing relations with Cuba. Many in Tampa are Cuban refugees and remember the horrors of living under Castro. They believe this decision will make the communist regime wealthier and do nothing for the common citizen. Well, of course they say that - they HAVE to say it, to justify (i.e., rationalize) the uncompromising ideological fervency that has guided the better part of most of their lives - otherwise, it's all been a waste. What else CAN they say, to rebut rational, objective analysis suggesting that Cubans' lives will improve, other than to steadfastly maintain that they will not? As one commentary I read succintly put it: there seems to be no room for middle ground in this dialogue. To illustrate by rough analogy: To devout Catholics, there can be no middle ground on abortion. To African Americans, there can be no compromising on racial issues. To many Jews, there can be no wavering on intermarriage or Israel. The older Catholics of Ireland will never truly trust the English; they might forgive, but they will never forget, or let their children do so. The list goes on. Thus it is with the Cuban exile population, particularly in Florida, where the social reinforcement is intense, and 24/7. To them, compromise is dealing with the devil, and there can be no dealing with the devil; full stop; end of discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #20 December 18, 2014 airdvrI think many here in the US would be surprised at the level of tourism going on in Cuba. One time in Jamaica an airline was offering a day trip to Cuba. We considered it but declined. I wasn't sure how a stamp in my passport from Cuba would go over in the states. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d2xGozti6s Finally a new market for mid 50's Chevys and the odd VW. I didn't always get my passport stamped when I traveled. Must not be a requirement. Just ask them not to if you don't want them to."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 December 18, 2014 Andy9o8Well, of course they say that - they HAVE to say it, to justify (i.e., rationalize) the uncompromising ideological fervency that has guided the better part of most of their lives - otherwise, it's all been a waste. What else CAN they say, to rebut rational, objective analysis suggesting that Cubans' lives will improve, other than to steadfastly maintain that they will not? really interesting you are just ready to just blithely disregard the opinions of these people I'm not invested one way or the other here, all I know was it was a bit off putting to see how 'giddy' the national news anchors were about it this morning. I'd really would have absorbed it a bit better if the delivery and attitudes were professional and objective. Gen Powell made some good statements in an interview about it though. He thought it was ok, but we need to be very watchful and that it doesn't excuse the treatment of the people or the bad policies of the Cuba gov in any way. that seems reasonable ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #22 December 18, 2014 Quotereally interesting you are just ready to just blithely disregard the opinions of these people Well, that answers the question I asked you in the other thread: yes, you must be a ballerina, for your love of spinning. Pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 December 18, 2014 Andy9o8Quotereally interesting you are just ready to just blithely disregard the opinions of these people Well, that answers the question I asked you in the other thread: yes, you must be a ballerina, for your love of spinning. Pass. that's the part you want to address? and you want to mischaracterize me as a spin jockey... you've moving more and more to stock bumper sticker commentary. too bad, you've been thoughtful mostly. Glad you're passing ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #24 December 18, 2014 An amusing bit of trivia about Gitmo: http://factually.gizmodo.com/the-u-s-tries-to-pay-cuba-about-4-000-a-year-to-lease-1672292682"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #25 December 18, 2014 Also as a side note, Communist Cuba advocates torturing their prisoners. http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htmLook for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
