Should you surrender to the police? (watch video)

[justme12001 0]

I understand it would get old, but if you are middle eastern looking and are in an airport, expect to be profiled, if you are dark skinned driving in wealthy neighborhood expect to be profiled.

Me as a 37 year old white male, if I'm walking around a school or an office building wearing a black trench coat, hat, and sunglasses i should expect to be profiled.

You know who you are, what you look like, and where you are. Just because you have a reason and the right to be somewhere doing whatever you are doing, doesn't mean other people don't have the right to worry about there safety.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Im a 6'4 white male with a thick mustache, and generally wear my black favorite hoodie and crocs when im on my days off, and you better bet I get profiled! I accept it, and do not put myself in situations that would make others uncomfortable. Situations like elevators where there is just me and a single woman, or woman with children I will let them go by themselves and I will wait and catch the next one. Its the times we live in.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[jakee 1,596]

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I understand it would get old, but if you are middle eastern looking and are in an airport, expect to be profiled, if you are dark skinned driving in wealthy neighborhood expect to be profiled.

Me as a 37 year old white male, if I'm walking around a school or an office building wearing a black trench coat, hat, and sunglasses i should expect to be profiled.

A) You can take off a hat and trenchcoat. You can't peel off your skin*.

B) If you're a cop asking questions people don't have to answer, expect to be told 'no'. And don't shoot them for it.



* Well, I guess technically you can, but please don't try it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[justme12001 0]

and if the black man driving in the wealthy neighbor hood is driving nice clean Mercedes and wearing wealthy neighborhood clothes and acting like he has common sense he most likely won't run into much trouble. However if he is driving a lowered Honda civic with tinted windows, bling bling wheels blasting rap music and smoking a blunt....is a cop wrong for pulling him over? This man might just live in the house down the street or he may be coming to visit his father or brother that lives in this neighborhood, but if you look the part expect to be treated the part

As far as the middle eastern gentleman in the airport....he's just screwed

[justme12001 0]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, it really isn't only about skin color, it's about your appearance and the way you present yourself!

If the liquor store a block away just got robbed and two black men are walking side by side down the street. One wearing a business suit and a clean overall appearance and the other wearing sagging pants, sideways hat and big gold chain, who is getting stopped and questioned?

[jakee 1,596]

justme12001

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, it really isn't only about skin color

Except in your airport scenario when it was all about skin colour.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi joe,

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If you are just walking down the street, not so much.

As I said: in Oregon, if you were issued a Driver's License, the law req'd you to show it to anyone who asked to see it [Sorry about the original typos.]

That meant at anytime and being asked by anyone. Even if you were not driving a vehicle. That was the law then; it may still be, I just do not know.

A state driver's license is issued by the state and they can put just about any req'ments that they want on the issuance.

Jerry Baumchen

[justme12001 0]

As far as the middle eastern gentleman in the airport....he's just screwed TongueAngelic


Guess, you didn't read all the way to the end.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Hi Jerry,

Wow. So what happened if you didn't have it on you?

I can understand the concept of states placing any restrictions they choose on a license that they issue, but I doubt that this would have survived a serious court challenge. You don't give up all your rights just because you obtain a DL.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,596]

justme12001

As far as the middle eastern gentleman in the airport....he's just screwed TongueAngelic


Guess, you didn't read all the way to the end.

Uh, since that was exactly what I was talking about I obviously did read it. You getting a little confused there dude?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

justme12001

and if the black man driving in the wealthy neighbor hood is driving nice clean Mercedes and wearing wealthy neighborhood clothes and acting like he has common sense he most likely won't run into much trouble. However if he is driving a lowered Honda civic with tinted windows, bling bling wheels blasting rap music and smoking a blunt....is a cop wrong for pulling him over? This man might just live in the house down the street or he may be coming to visit his father or brother that lives in this neighborhood, but if you look the part expect to be treated the part

As far as the middle eastern gentleman in the airport....he's just screwed

For your first example (well dressed, driving a nice car): Wanna bet?
"Driving While Black" covers most socio-economic strata.

And for the 2nd example (gangsta car, gangsta music, gangsta appearance): Can the cop pull him over just for that? I don't think so. Although cops can always "find an excuse" to pull someone over.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,596]

Although, in his second example the guy is actually committing a crime ('smoking a blunt'), so of course the cop is right to pull him over - but it means the scenario is irrelevant to the overall point he's trying to make.

Like I said, he seems to be confusing himself.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,596]

JerryBaumchen

As I said: in Oregon, if you were issued a Driver's License, the law req'd you to show it to anyone who asked to see it [Sorry about the original typos.]

That meant at anytime and being asked by anyone. Even if you were not driving a vehicle. That was the law then

You think? Sounds like absolute bullshit to me, but whatever.

( I mean, how would it even work? If you're not in a car how do they know you've got a licence? 'Hey buddy, I wanna see your licence!' "I'm sorry, I don't have one." 'You're under citizen's arrest!')

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[justme12001 0]

Nope, not confused in the slightest!! You are just being argumentative.

If stopped and asked for my ID (which has happened in the past), I will present it and keep my mouth shut, unless asked a question. Upon being asked a question, I will answer that question and only that question and I will do it in the most polite way that I can. When the situation is over, i will tell the officer to have a nice day. This approach has always worked well for me in the past, and i believe it will continue to.

If you want to scream fuck the police and be an ass if asked to present your ID or stopped for any reason. Go right ahead, I'll be watching for your youtube video or waiting to hear you come here and complain about how you got victimized by the police.

With that, I am leaving this conversation! I don't know why I even stepped into SC, I should know better.

[jakee 1,596]

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If you want to scream fuck the police and be an ass if asked to present your ID or stopped for any reason. Go right ahead, I'll be watching for your youtube video or waiting to hear you come here and complain about how you got victimized by the police.

Who said I wanted to do that? Is that the result of some imaginary conversation you're having in your head? 'Cos it sure isn't coming from the conversation you've had with me.

OTOH, the idea that people should be profiled purely based on skin colour absolutely has come from you, so I'm not sure why you were trying to deny it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,589]

I used to be a computer programmer; I had three co-workers who were young black men; all programmers. We did overnight support duty via beeper; when it was our turn, we'd carry the beeper for a week, and pass it on to the next person. This was about 1992, so beepers were current technology.

Being young men, two of the three had the nice, fast, car that young men seemed to get when they had a good job and turned 25 (at which point the insurance went down if you had a good record).

I remember overhearing a conversation among them; it wasn't for my benefit. They were joking about how when it was each of their turn to carry the beeper, that when they were stopped by the police, if the beeper was visible, they would pretty much always be yelled at to exit the car, spread'em, and put their hands on the roof or hood so they could be patted down. Sometimes with partners' guns drawn.

Interestingly enough, I was never stopped at all, and I would have been astounded to be told to exit the car etc. But, of course, I'm a white woman, and I was about 10 years older than they were.

Again -- well dressed (this was before thug dressing), new cars, good driving records (which would imply generally good driving). No, I don't think it's safe to say that a black man will be treated OK if he's driving a nice car. Hell, one was shot in his own driveway here in the Houston area, because the officer thought his car might be stolen. There wasn't any reason to think that, other than that he was a black man in a normally-white neighborhood.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi joe,

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So what happened if you didn't have it on you?

If you are operating a motor vehicle, you are req'd to have it on you. Just like you have to have your rigger's license whenever you exercise your rigging privileges.

If you were not driving, then you obviously did not have to have it and would not have to show it.

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I doubt that this would have survived a serious court challenge

I disagree. About 12 yrs ago I attended a seminar at the Univ of Oregon Law School. I don't remember what this issues were but it was something that I was willing to drive 1 1/2 hrs to attend. During the seminar I brought up the issue about custom/vanity license plates in Oregon. A local wine distributer wanted to get VINO on his plates. The DMV turned him down & he sued. It went all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court & they ruled that all license plates in Oregon are the property of the state. I think that this would be the same outcome as regards your personal state-issued driver's license in Oregon.

Does that explain it sufficiently?

And to Jakee: You may not like it but the only option would be to change the law. Or just don't get a driver's license.

Any attorneys out there who might want to provide some thoughts?

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,596]

JerryBaumchen

Hi joe,

Quote

So what happened if you didn't have it on you?

If you were not driving, then you obviously did not have to have it and would not have to show it.

Eh? You just said that you had to show it to anyone at any time even if you weren't driving. Which one was it?

And frankly, it still doesn't make sense. How can someone demand to see your licence when you're driving? Would it mean that an ordinary person could pull you over, or would they just tap on your window when you were stopped at traffic lights?

Quote

And to Jakee: You may not like it but the only option would be to change the law. Or just don't get a driver's license.

Uh, no. Sorry if I wasn't clear - it's not that I don't like it, it's that I think you're wrong and it never existed in the first place.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[CameraNewbie 0]

wmw999

Again -- well dressed (this was before thug dressing), new cars, good driving records (which would imply generally good driving). No, I don't think it's safe to say that a black man will be treated OK if he's driving a nice car. Hell, one was shot in his own driveway here in the Houston area, because the officer thought his car might be stolen. There wasn't any reason to think that, other than that he was a black man in a normally-white neighborhood.

Wendy P.

Wow you're going to judge law enforcement personnel based on a few instances? Were they beaten? Were they given a summons? Did they even ask for an explanation for being stopped? Probably not. Did they take the officer's names down and question their immediate supervisor regarding the stop? Probably not. And please don't say that they were in fear for their life because a gun was drawn on them. At any point in time they can ask questions about why they're being stopped.

Besides providing the information regarding the man in his own driveway being shot because the police thought he was driving a stolen, do you have the complete details of that incident. Probably not.

What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks!

[SkyDekker 1,465]

CameraNewbie

***
Again -- well dressed (this was before thug dressing), new cars, good driving records (which would imply generally good driving). No, I don't think it's safe to say that a black man will be treated OK if he's driving a nice car. Hell, one was shot in his own driveway here in the Houston area, because the officer thought his car might be stolen. There wasn't any reason to think that, other than that he was a black man in a normally-white neighborhood.

Wendy P.

Wow you're going to judge law enforcement personnel based on a few instances? Were they beaten? Were they given a summons? Did they even ask for an explanation for being stopped? Probably not. Did they take the officer's names down and question their immediate supervisor regarding the stop? Probably not. And please don't say that they were in fear for their life because a gun was drawn on them. At any point in time they can ask questions about why they're being stopped.

Besides providing the information regarding the man in his own driveway being shot because the police thought he was driving a stolen, do you have the complete details of that incident. Probably not.

I thought they were supposed to just do as they are told and not ask questions?

Your other "questions" seem to imply you are ok with the behaviour as long as they didn't get a summons or they weren't beaten.

Keep believing that this is all just a "race industry" and race baiter" problem and that there really isn't an actual problem. I am sure that is the best way.

[wmw999 2,589]

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do you have the complete details of that incident. Probably not

The details are linked in my post. That's what the underlining means, it's a clickified link.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[CameraNewbie 0]

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The details are linked in my post. That's what the underlining means, it's a clickified link.

Wendy P.

So basically, you're telling me, your details are from wikipedia. You're not providing any evidence i.e. statements, from any court proceedings. Wow

What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks!

[DanG 1]

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So basically, you're telling me, your details are from wikipedia. You're not providing any evidence i.e. statements, from any court proceedings. Wow

Seriously? Next time you post anything, expect to be asked to cite verse and chapter from proceedings under penalty of perjury.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

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So basically, you're telling me, your details are from wikipedia. You're not providing any evidence i.e. statements, from any court proceedings. Wow

Seriously? Next time you post anything, expect to be asked to cite verse and chapter from proceedings under penalty of perjury.

Only after you say, "so help me God".

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

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Only after you say, "so help me God".

I'll say that all day. It has no meaning to me.

Well, that's not exactly true. It has meaning to me in that it makes me sad we still don't have separation of church and state.

- Dan G