billvon 3,132
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billvon
So you are claiming that before climate change was a big issue, no one (or even fewer people) died from freezing or overheating? That's going to be a very hard claim to substantiate.
Not even close. I'm saying that it happened a lot more often before cheap and reliable energy as available. Make energy more expensive (or less reliable) and more people will die from weather events.
[Quote]With the push for better insulation and more efficient furnaces in houses, fewer people freeze to death because it's just plain cheaper to heat your house. With Energy Star requirements for air conditioners, fewer people die in heat waves because they can cool their homes more reliably and with less money.
Except for the poor, who have a hard time swinging ten bucks for an energy efficient light bulb. That's one thing about the poor - they can't afford to reinsulate or renovate or swing $20k for a solar system or $5k for new efficient appliances. Many beat the heat with fans. Some have a box a/c in the window.
[Reply]My mother's family grew up in an apartment in Queens. No air conditioning at all, and no electric lights at first. O the horror of someone living in a modern apartment who might have to endure the pains using a cheap window air conditioner.
Oh, the horror of someone who might have to drop an extra $50 a month to use that a/c. I remember wearing a wet tee shirt when it got hot. The poor can do it too, right? Fuck em. They can't afford an extra $50 a month then screw them!
[Reply]Yes, there is always some pain when change happened.
Thank you. You get it.
[Reply]Cars drove stables out of business. Electricity drove lamplighters out of business. Sound in movies drove organists out of business.
And child labor laws meant less money for families, but it also meant more kids living to the teenage years. And kerosene saved more whales than Greenpeace but put whalers out of business.
[Reply]Fortunately the US wind power is now employing 75K people, so the jobs still exist - they are just a different form.
That benefits apply to some does not relieve the costs to others. You could give your kidneys up to two people and dramatically improve their lives. Doesn't mean your life wouldn't suck afterward.
[Reply]Yep. And others say "fuck the US" and don't give a shit about how many people coal power kills. As long at it's someone else.
Indeed. We tend to screw over those who have less power while shoring up the power of those who already have it. See "Stock Market since 2008 v. Employment"
[Quote]Still others say "fuck the future" and could really care less about the future effects of their current actions - as long as they can warm up their hot tub in an hour and watch that big screen TV. That's all that's important to them.
True.
Meanwhile I have something that started this off: let's see how bad this will be. Not with post hoc attribution but with some actual observations (any marginally proficient climate guy could run a computer model projecting all those things) that are in line with what I think will be bad enough to force major societal changes.
It leads to the question: "Is it worth sending someone to prison for using a black market hot tub while watching the Blackhawks on a big screen?" Because, as you know, that's what will be necessary to curb the practice.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
>people die. That 1995 heat wave in Chicago? Yeah - it didn't kill wealthy or middle
>class. It killed the poor. The elderly. Those who couldn't afford to cool down.
So you are claiming that before climate change was a big issue, no one (or even fewer people) died from freezing or overheating? That's going to be a very hard claim to substantiate.
In fact I would claim the opposite. With the push for better insulation and more efficient furnaces in houses, fewer people freeze to death because it's just plain cheaper to heat your house. With Energy Star requirements for air conditioners, fewer people die in heat waves because they can cool their homes more reliably and with less money.
My mother's family grew up in an apartment in Queens. No air conditioning at all, and no electric lights at first. O the horror of someone living in a modern apartment who might have to endure the pains using a cheap window air conditioner.
> I can assure you that there is suffering
>whenever a layoff occurs. Do you think that some west Virginia coal mining family
>cheered when the coal mine was idled? 150 or 200 coal mines (mainly in
>Appalachia) have been idled while 15k megawatts of coal generation has been
>shuttered.
Yes, there is always some pain when change happened. Cars drove stables out of business. Electricity drove lamplighters out of business. Sound in movies drove organists out of business.
Fortunately the US wind power is now employing 75K people, so the jobs still exist - they are just a different form.
>Some people say, "Fuck the poor" and don't give a shit about making housing,
>fuel, electricity, food, etc, affordable.
Yep. And others say "fuck the US" and don't give a shit about how many people coal power kills. As long at it's someone else.
Still others say "fuck the future" and could really care less about the future effects of their current actions - as long as they can warm up their hot tub in an hour and watch that big screen TV. That's all that's important to them.
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